Thread: Darwin is getting slow in his old age.

Toddler accidentally kills mother in Wal-mart | Stuff.co.nz



I mean do people really need to carry concealed weapons in the USA?

Need ? Probably not, want to, now's that's a different story entirely.
Quite why you'd carry a loaded pistol, with the safety off, in your purse God only knows
Still, she won't do it again.
Feel sorry for the kid.

Do people really need to wear seatbelts?

Originally Posted by Banana

Do people really need to wear seatbelts?

The effect is NET though, so with a seat belt you dont tend to have a risk of ending up dead from using it, and it could save your life and/or reduce injury.

Originally Posted by steven

and it could save your life and/or reduce injury.

One could say the same about CCW.

Originally Posted by steven

The effect is NET though, so with a seat belt you dont tend to have a risk of ending up dead from using it, and it could save your life and/or reduce injury.

Seatbelts can cause death, but they're more likely to save you than kill you.

Questioning CCW based on a single accident or even all the rare occasions where it has caused the death of the carrier and ignoring the lives saved/injury prevented by CCW, is like questioning seatbelts based on the tiny number of cases where they caused the death of the wearer.

Whether it is concealed or not doesn't matter a damn, you are the person responsible for the weapon and it should be in your command at all times. How the hell do you explain to a toddler by the way you killed your mother due to her stupidity.

or lock their doors at night.

Originally Posted by steven

Toddler accidentally kills mother in Wal-mart | Stuff.co.nz



I mean do people really need to carry concealed weapons in the USA?

It's the American mentality. Someone is out there to do you great harm and here's the ability to protect yourself. The real shame is some American's don't see just how fucked up their country has become, as extremism in violence by everyone is becoming the norm.

Car jacking at the lights - better have a 357 in the car door.
Home invasion - 12g loaded by the front door.
Out supermarket shopping - have a loaded pistol in easy reach.

The pro-gunners say the increasing violence means someone with a gun is safer, the anti-gunners say the gun is causing the violence. And the rest of the world looks on and wonders why it's safer in Syria than Detroit.

I had a fascinating conversation with some Yanks in Florida last year over lunch at the local diner/lunch bar. They were all conceal carrying, all kept glancing to the door regularly, and all trained regularly for the 'what if' scenario - it's just a mentality that was hard for me to agree with. One was a former Army Ranger now professional shooter and instructor too.

Originally Posted by Kscott

It's the American mentality. Someone is out there to do you great harm and here's the ability to protect yourself. The real shame is some American's don't see just how fucked up their country has become, as extremism in violence by everyone is becoming the norm.

Car jacking at the lights - better have a 357 in the car door.
Home invasion - 12g loaded by the front door.
Out supermarket shopping - have a loaded pistol in easy reach.

The pro-gunners say the increasing violence means someone with a gun is safer, the anti-gunners say the gun is causing the violence. And the rest of the world looks on and wonders why it's safer in Syria than Detroit.

I had a fascinating conversation with some Yanks in Florida last year over lunch at the local diner/lunch bar. They were all conceal carrying, all kept glancing to the door regularly, and all trained regularly for the 'what if' scenario - it's just a mentality that was hard for me to agree with. One was a former Army Ranger now professional shooter and instructor too.

Kscott

I disagree with the Pro-gunners here.

Someone with a gun is Not Safer.

However someone with a gun is less likely to become a Victim if they have the means to fight back if confronted by an aggressor.
And aggressors, like all bullies, are less likely to confront you if they believe you may have the means and the determination to fight back.
Hence why open carry is becoming more popular.

And I strongly disagree with the Anti gunners

Guns aren't causing the violence.

People Are!

Cheers
Pete

Originally Posted by Kscott

The pro-gunners say the increasing violence means someone with a gun is safer, the anti-gunners say the gun is causing the violence. And the rest of the world looks on and wonders why it's safer in Syria than Detroit.

Violence is not increasing, it is decreasing. The US is at a 40 year low for violent crime. http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/24/us/24crime.html

Gun crime has been dropping in the US (like everywhere else) since the 90s, which is when Americans started the push towards more CCW rights. Are they related? I would say they've helped, but wouldn't be the major factor. Correlation doesn't mean causation.

The fact is though is that there are more guns in the USA than ever before and gun crime has fallen. Gun crime has many more factors than merely the availability of guns.

Originally Posted by Koshogi

Violence is not increasing, it is decreasing. The US is at a 40 year low for violent crime. http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/24/us/24crime.html

Gun crime has been dropping in the US (like everywhere else) since the 90s, which is when Americans started the push towards more CCW rights. Are they related? I would say they've helped, but wouldn't be the major factor. Correlation doesn't mean causation.

The fact is though is that there are more guns in the USA than ever before and gun crime has fallen. Gun crime has many more factors than merely the availability of guns.

The intensity of the violence has increased over the years, rather the actual numbers.

And for the USA, if a good guy carrying a gun can beat a bad guy carrying the gun, the USA should be the safest country in the world

For a sheer numbers perspective, unfortunately this story is jut a blip on the radar.
Gun-death tally: Every American gun death since Newtown Sandy Hook shooting (INTERACTIVE).

Every icon is clickable to find out how/where they died. And that report ended Dec 2013.

We could go round and round in circles debating what happens in another country, but I'm very happy to live in good ol' NZ tbh

Originally Posted by Kscott

The intensity of the violence has increased over the years, rather the actual numbers.

That is purely subjective. Humans have always been incredibly violent. One only needs to read a history book or "the book" to see that. We just get to see it now in 1080p.

Originally Posted by Koshogi

Violence is not increasing, it is decreasing. The US is at a 40 year low for violent crime. http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/24/us/24crime.html ...........................

My immediate response is to show the date of your link.....Published: May 23, 2011

I consider this irresponsible and if you are sincere, you should not use data 3 1/2 years old.

Originally Posted by Kiwi Sapper

My immediate response is to show the date of your link.....Published: May 23, 2011

I consider this irresponsible and if you are sincere, you should not use data 3 1/2 years old.

So are you saying that the violent crime rates have not continued their downward trend since this 'old' 2011 article?

I wasn't using 'data', I was using an article from the NY Times as a reference point.

If you want data, here is a point taken from the overview from the most recent data collected by the FBI in their Uniform Crime Report 2013.

When considering 5- and 10-year trends, the 2013 estimated violent crime total was 12.3 percent below the 2009 level and 14.5 percent below the 2004 level.

FBI — Violent Crime

The article is still relevant irregardless of it being 3 years old.