Thread: E cat safe/safe room options

Originally Posted by Jexla

So all campaigns to reduce drink driving, IDing your target in the bush, keeping your guns locked up (this is a current one run by your organization) etc etc is what? Futile?

Only if you consider anything but a 100% success rate a failure, which would be stupid.

Originally Posted by Savage1

Only if you consider anything but a 100% success rate a failure, which would be stupid.

That's my point...

Not everyone is going to register their firearms either, just like not everyone is going to record their firearm serials when largely encouraged. Also just like not everyone is going to not speed.
100% compliance will never happen with ANYTHING, but that doesn't make registration any more effective than personally recording your own serials which are then handed to police if stolen.

We're adults, not children and we're fed up all being treating like children because of the few people who act like children.

Originally Posted by Jexla

That's my point...

Not everyone is going to register their firearms either, just like not everyone is going to record their firearm serials when largely encouraged. Also just like not everyone is going to not speed.
100% compliance will never happen with ANYTHING, but that doesn't make registration any more effective than personally recording your own serials which are then handed to police if stolen.

We're adults, not criminals and we're fed up all being treating like criminals because of the few people who act like criminals

fixed that for you.

Originally Posted by Danger Mouse

fixed that for you.

Yeah that's exactly what I was saying ;P

And if the cops say that they can run the current system properly now, why are there so many delays to people getting export permits?

Why so many delays to people getting licenses and endorsements issued which is, after all, the most basic thing that they have to do?

The cops get their best compliance rates IMO on the back of licensed owners' goodwill and yet they seem to want to keep chipping away at said goodwill

Originally Posted by Jexla

That's my point...

Not everyone is going to register their firearms either, just like not everyone is going to record their firearm serials when largely encouraged. Also just like not everyone is going to not speed.
100% compliance will never happen with ANYTHING, but that doesn't make registration any more effective than personally recording your own serials which are then handed to police if stolen.

We're adults, not children and we're fed up all being treating like children because of the few people who act like children.

So just because there won't be 100% compliance doesn't make it pointless, I would think that registration compliance would be a lot higher than people that keep their own records up to date and available. Keeping your own records won't deter people from selling to nefarious people either.

If you believe you've been treated like a criminal by Police then I don't think you've ever been dealt with as a criminal by Police. I rarely deal with FAL holders as criminals, I often deal with adults who're acting like children and I do often see FAL holders acting/posting like children.

Originally Posted by Savage1

So just because there won't be 100% compliance doesn't make it pointless, I would think that registration compliance would be a lot higher than people that keep their own records up to date and available. Keeping your own records won't deter people from selling to nefarious people either.

But is the cost and effort of setting-up/administering/maintaining a registry worth it to deter people from selling to nefarious people? Of all the ways crims can get hold of guns, what proportion come from naughty sales?

Originally Posted by stretch

But is the cost and effort of setting-up/administering/maintaining a registry worth it to deter people from selling to nefarious people? Of all the ways crims can get hold of guns, what proportion come from naughty sales?

That's all unknowns really, I do think more come from 'naughty sales' than people think.

Originally Posted by Savage1

That's all unknowns really, I do think more come from 'naughty sales' than people think.

These "Naughty sales" raise another point. How many firearms "disappeared" when the MSSA came in? Or when Aussie did its major buy back / ban? From what I hear from a plumber from Oz that used to work where I work, that year he sold out of large diameter PVC and end caps as fast as he could source them. (Heresay I realise...), and pre MSSA rifles such as the mini 14 with the 30rnd mags, 10/22s with the bananas and SKS unaltered ones that were now only able to be sold to the black market as they could not be sold on the open market.

If these laws were enacted PRIOR to these types of firearms entering the country then it would be workable (Whether it is right or wrong is not the point) but introducing a ban or change like this has several affects, 1) these firearms that are already here become harder to sell legitimately, and harder to buy legitimately 2) the price lowers for illegitimate sales as there is no longer legitimate sales point to compete with. For example, think in the early 90s when the SKS first hit the market at $299. They sold like hotcakes, cheap, reliable and cheap to feed with milsurp ammo. Then they change the rules to say 7 rounds only. Options spend $100 (or there about at the time) to modify it, spend $200 on an endorsement each year (pointless when you want a cheap rifle) or flick it off at $200 to "someone at the pub" who doesn't mind the problem. While I do not know of any myself that vanished, I also only know of a few that were altered to A-cat. So how many SKS rifles made it to E cat, how many were imported and how many vanished? And was this what the law maker actually wanted to happen? (I guess No is that answer)

Final big question: Did this law change encourage less or more rifles went into criminal hands?

Originally Posted by Savage1

So just because there won't be 100% compliance doesn't make it pointless, I would think that registration compliance would be a lot higher than people that keep their own records up to date and available. Keeping your own records won't deter people from selling to nefarious people either.

If you believe you've been treated like a criminal by Police then I don't think you've ever been dealt with as a criminal by Police. I rarely deal with FAL holders as criminals, I often deal with adults who're acting like children and I do often see FAL holders acting/posting like children.

I'd disagree, I'd say more people would keep records of their own than would register all firearms. We could even make it a requirement that you keep records of serial numbers and have to give them to police in the event. Although this may deter people who haven't done so from reporting it which wouldn't be good.

So because I disagree with you I am acting/posting like a child? Get out of here, you're taking the piss now.

Sorry, is the outhouse attached to the house or standalone?

16mm steel bars every 200mm in each direction epoxied into the window frames should do the windows and the fattest grade of steel flooring mesh (the big sheets) on the walls with 18mm ply screwed over it on the interior should meet your requirements but before doing the work I'd strongly suggest going to your local Arms Officer and showing them some pics of what and where and how you plan to do it and get their buy-in so that they are more likely to say yes

Please keep us posted and put up pics as you go - good luck

Originally Posted by 308

Sorry, is the outhouse attached to the house or standalone?

16mm steel bars every 200mm in each direction epoxied into the window frames should do the windows and the fattest grade of steel flooring mesh (the big sheets) on the walls with 18mm ply screwed over it on the interior should meet your requirements but before doing the work I'd strongly suggest going to your local Arms Officer and showing them some pics of what and where and how you plan to do it and get their buy-in so that they are more likely to say yes

Please keep us posted and put up pics as you go - good luck

Yes it a standalone outhouse by itself. Do I need to put flooring mesh on the ceiling as well? The roof is just a standard house roof with potential some space in the roof. Agree with going to see the AO but I figured I have a plan in mind so he knows I have given it some thought.

I'd armour the ceiling same as the walls - there used to be a crew of burglars that specialized in gaining entry by peeling back a bit of the roofing..