FAL licensing question

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22-12-2016, 09:58 AM
kiwijames

FAL licensing question

Hey. I have a mate who is moving to a new job. Part of the job is pest control (shooting birds). I've never needed to know (as I always intend to own my own rifles), but does he need to have personal physical secure storage as part of his licence for a firearm? Reason being he does not intend to own a firearm (and then no longer requires a safe etc) as his employer will store and provide rifle as and when required. I have seen this question come up twice in two separate instances and couldn't answer for sure. I can have a DL but don't need to own a car. Why would it be different with a FAL?
22-12-2016, 10:21 AM
oraki

I asked the vetting officer the same. The person I was a referee for had no firearms, and didn't intend to buy any in the near future, but it was a requirement to have storage. Just in case he bought one before the 10 yr renewal came up.
The officer said so long as he has a lock on a cupboard, or a chain of stout construction and something secure to lock it to, that would do.
Once again, could be different rules for different regions
22-12-2016, 10:43 AM
Mathias

Yep he is required to have storage, though the vetting officer may only require the basic security, like a lockable rack. Can depend on how anal the local arms officer is.
22-12-2016, 10:51 AM
Sidney

No he is not legally required to have storage if he does not have a firearm. That won't stop the arms officers telling him that he is though.
22-12-2016, 11:19 AM
Marty Henry

No the employer has secure storage ( i hope), that he has access to and the firearms are secured there. Make it clear that he will not take them home. The act only mentions secure storage and thats not always in your home. I know a guy who stores his c and e cat stuff in an old bank vault 5 min drive from his home mind you he does own the building.
22-12-2016, 11:32 AM
Kscott

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sidney

No he is not legally required to have storage if he does not have a firearm. That won't stop the arms officers telling him that he is though.

Sidney is right, there is no legal requirement to have storage prior to gaining a FAL.

However common sense will also dictate that should the new shooter change his mind 1 day after gaining a license, he can go out and purchase a firearm with no checked security, which is bad for all of us if said firearm was to be easily stolen as it was sitting under the bed.

Therefore the AO will insist/obsfucate the vetting process.

tldr: get security if you want a FAL because one day you may change your mind and buy a firearm. If it's too hard to do, don't get a FAL.
22-12-2016, 05:40 PM
rambo-6mmrem

just buy the chepest storage you can find a single gun rack is only about 60 bucks from memory install it to keep the ao happy
also has the advantage of having safe storage if he needs to bring the gun home for any reason
22-12-2016, 06:36 PM
timattalon

Put a gunsafe in of some sort, set it up with shelves and use it as a safe / locked cupboard. Then in the future if he does get a rifle, he has somewhere to keep it, the AO is happy and he gets a lockable cupboard for the rest of his "stealables". If the AO insists on having secure storage, then it is probably worth showing him where the firearms will be kept (at work) and it could also be suggested that the boss may have to supply if it is solefy for work and he would otherwise not get a license.....Even the boss chipping in could help....
22-12-2016, 07:18 PM
Koshogi

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kscott

Sidney is right, there is no legal requirement to have storage prior to gaining a FAL.

However common sense will also dictate that should the new shooter change his mind 1 day after gaining a license, he can go out and purchase a firearm with no checked security, which is bad for all of us if said firearm was to be easily stolen as it was sitting under the bed.

Therefore the AO will insist/obsfucate the vetting process.

tldr: get security if you want a FAL because one day you may change your mind and buy a firearm. If it's too hard to do, don't get a FAL.

There is a requirement to have secure storage in the FAL holders residence.

Arms Regulations 1992
19 Conditions relating to security precautionshttp://www.legislation.govt.nz/regul...DLM169122.html
(1)Every firearms licence shall be subject to the following conditions:
(2) On and after 1 July 1993 the reasonable steps required by subclause (1)(c) shall include—
(a)keeping on the holder’s premises—
(i)a lockable cabinet, container, or receptacle of stout construction in which firearms may be stored; or
(ii)a lockable steel and concrete strongroom in which firearms may be stored; or
(iii)a display cabinet or rack in which firearms may be immobilised and locked so that none of them may be fired; and
(b)keeping locked or immobilised and locked in the cabinet, container, receptacle, strongroom, display cabinet, or rack required by paragraph (a) every firearm which is on the holder’s premises and which is not under immediate and personal supervision of the holder or some other holder of a firearms licence; and...
22-12-2016, 07:54 PM
kiwijames

Quote:

Originally Posted by Koshogi

There is a requirement to have secure storage in the FAL holders residence.

Arms Regulations 1992
19 Conditions relating to security precautionsArms Regulations 1992 (SR 1992/346) (as at 11 December 2013) 19 Conditions relating to security precautions – New Zealand Legislation
(1)Every firearms licence shall be subject to the following conditions:
(2) On and after 1 July 1993 the reasonable steps required by subclause (1)(c) shall include—
(a)keeping on the holder’s premises—
(i)a lockable cabinet, container, or receptacle of stout construction in which firearms may be stored; or
(ii)a lockable steel and concrete strongroom in which firearms may be stored; or
(iii)a display cabinet or rack in which firearms may be immobilised and locked so that none of them may be fired; and
(b)keeping locked or immobilised and locked in the cabinet, container, receptacle, strongroom, display cabinet, or rack required by paragraph (a) every firearm which is on the holder’s premises and which is not under immediate and personal supervision of the holder or some other holder of a firearms licence; and...

Cheers. That appears to be the answer Im looking for.
23-12-2016, 09:24 AM
Kscott

Quote:

Originally Posted by Koshogi

There is a requirement to have secure storage in the FAL holders residence.

(a)keeping on the holder’s premises—

Are not the same, never have been.

It's just yet another example of poorly written legislation.
23-12-2016, 08:51 PM
GravelBen

Quote:

Originally Posted by muzza

If he has no firearms I am sure there will be pressure put on him to surrender his licence - no gun , no need for licence.

Really? What makes you think that will happen?
23-12-2016, 09:54 PM
AzumitH

Quote:

Originally Posted by GravelBen

Really? What makes you think that will happen?

For what it's worth, I know of two people that were encouraged by the visiting vettor at renewal time to let B,C and E endorsements lapse, since there were currently no firearms registered to those individuals.
23-12-2016, 10:15 PM
Sidney

So what... you don 't have to... it is not a requirement to own or posess a firearm to have a licience. Personally I would be informing said AO that what I choose to do is my business and not theirs.
24-12-2016, 07:34 AM
stretch

Quote:

Originally Posted by muzza

If he has no firearms I am sure there will be pressure put on him to surrender his licence - no gun , no need for licence .

Quote:

Originally Posted by AzumitH

For what it's worth, I know of two people that were encouraged by the visiting vettor at renewal time to let B,C and E endorsements lapse, since there were currently no firearms registered to those individuals.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sidney

So what... you don 't have to... it is not a requirement to own or posess a firearm to have a licience. Personally I would be informing said AO that what I choose to do is my business and not theirs.

I don't own a vehicle that matches each class on my driver's license. Should I surrender my class 6, class 2 etc?
24-12-2016, 09:17 AM
timattalon

Quote:

Originally Posted by stretch

I don't own a vehicle that matches each class on my driver's license. Should I surrender my class 6, class 2 etc?

Precisely the opposite. The posters are suggesting that while there may be encouragement from the Vetting officers to drop the endorsement, they are saying that you should keep the endorsement. The posters are suggesting (in your example) that because you dont own a class 2 or class 6 that you dont "want" your endorsement when in fact, you may want or need it again in the future .....