Firearm Storage Requirements

I appreciate the reply, and I applaud you for thinking as you do.
Problem being, you're a firearms user outside of the police force and that means you understand the problems that we can come across.
The same cannot be said for every other police officer, some who don't even know the laws themselves. There have been countless examples on this forum and others of police failing to understand and using the wording of the legislation to how they see fit.
One example as of recently, which I will link for reference is where the police took a mans firearm and firearms licence from him for shooting claybird with his shotgun in a rural area on private property.
There were no charges (yet?) and he has had his belongings taken from him.

Link: http://www.nzhuntingandshooting.co.n...i-stand-18527/

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Originally Posted by Tristan

....the Sargent was asking the questions like who was shooting who's gun as who has the fal, she asked how the gun got here and I stated it got here in my ute and she asked if I had a secure lock up in my vehicle for it, to which I said you can carry a gun in a vehicle not loaded breach open for shotgun, she looked at me dead in the eyes and paused for a minute to which I know I was right

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Then the Sarg asks him if he had a secure lockup in his ute for it to get it there, now all of us know that's not necessary to transport an A class firearm, but the Sarg didn't seem to.

This is one recent example of many, I'm not going to say you're wrong about anything Savage, but I will say I disagree about the arms act being written very clearly.
I hope if I ever have an encounter with the police related to me using my firearms lawfully it's with you or someone as knowledgeable as you about firearms.

http://www.nzhuntingandshooting.co.n...i-stand-18527/
Personally, my 'opinion' is that there is 3 sides to that particular story. I don't think it's necessarily a clear cut example of poor policing.
The other Nelson incident from the media is the only other one that comes to mind and I can't remember the outcome there. I don't really think that constitutes 'many examples'. However, there may be some support for the argument regarding regional differences in securing a safe.

Here's another curly scenario: what if FAL holder lives the house-bus / campervan lifestyle? Their home where they store their firearm(s) is also a vehicle. What, if any, security arrangements would be acceptable for him/her to be able to legally leave his vehicle/home unattended with firearm(s) secured inside?

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Originally Posted by stretch

Here's another curly scenario: what if FAL holder lives the house-bus / campervan lifestyle? Their home where they store their firearm(s) is also a vehicle. What, if any, security arrangements would be acceptable for him/her to be able to legally leave his vehicle/home unattended with firearm(s) secured inside?

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Good question.

You covered it in your last few words, "secured inside". The FAL holder would have to have adequate security in his motorhome/caravan. That would be either a gun cabinet or a gun rack that meets the required security criteria. Doubt whether a strong room would be a viable option.

Ask Mr Richard Lincoln when he was living in a house bus in ChCh. I can't remember the exact details on the court case but by memory it hinged around his E Cat application and security - and how which comes 1st.

If you have another safe at a bach are you required to inform the local arms officer that it is there? The firearms would only be there when on holiday.

Common sense would say that you keep your firearms with you and store them in an appropriate safe in your bach too - E-cat firearms in an E-cat safe; A-cat firearms in an A-cat safe, etc

The thing I'm having trouble with is keeping an E-cat safe in my tent when I go out hunting

I think I need a bigger tent and that thing is getting heavy

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Originally Posted by Ayejay

If you have another safe at a bach are you required to inform the local arms officer that it is there? The firearms would only be there when on holiday.

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Un-attended vehicle not out of view. So if its locked while in the petrol station in full view of you all the time I dont see an issue. There will be a camera and you can ring the police immediately from safety. I mean if you are stopped at a zebra crossing and someone pulls open the door and takes out the gun what exactly can you do?

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Originally Posted by Mauser308

I've often wondered how the constabulary get on when leaving a vehicle unattended. After all, their place of work is said vehicle, and they store the tools of the trade in it. There's an unanswered question here as to the application of the law on firearms storage in vehicles, warrant from the queen be damned.

If it's good enough for them to store their tools inside a specially designed and secured and locked storage container securely fixed to the vehicle, why can't the rest of us get approval to do it? Would make life a damn sight easier on long, multi-hour trips especially if you are say, hopping the divide between the islands and parking on the ferry etc.

Aussie has it, as well as several other jurisdictions and it just seems to work in those.

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The Police are exempt from the Arms Act if I recall correctly, however the lock boxes in the vehicles are very secure.

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Originally Posted by Mauser308

I've often wondered how the constabulary get on when leaving a vehicle unattended. After all, their place of work is said vehicle, and they store the tools of the trade in it. There's an unanswered question here as to the application of the law on firearms storage in vehicles, warrant from the queen be damned.

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Police secure their firearms in a lock box. Regardless, in the execution of their duties they have a lot more free range than the public, from using a cellphone to driving above the speed limit. If they break those limits they are prosecuted, but comparing them to the general public activities is a losing battle.

Also as regards Pelican cases there are some really cheap and not too shabby knock-off cases going at places like Super Cheap Auto and the like

A chain around the seat and that buys you 5mins against an opportunist thief

My interpretation of the law regarding the leaving of a firearm in an unattended vehicle is:

You must keep your firearm with you at all time, even if you need to go into a bank, or a restaurant, supermarket or wherever.

You must not pass that firearm to a third party unless they are a firearm license holder

If it is an E cat firearm, you cannot let anyone be in possession of it, unless they have a dealers license.

This strictly follows the letter of the law. However, the letter of the law is open to interpretation until the existence of case law. Has anyone been prosecuted for leaving a firearm in an unattended vehicle? If so, what were the circumstances, and what was the outcome? A magistrate / jury will look at each case individually. Someone leaving a rifle on their front seat whilst ducking into a dairy to buy some fags (settle down you sickos ;) ), will be treated differently to someone who conceals their firearm whilst doing some banking. But the case law will set the legal precedent for either case. Correct me if I'm wrong.

The above post, with the line " you must keep your firearm with you at all times, even if you go into a bank"

Can you imagine waltzing into the bank with an ar15 on your back !!!!
men in black overalls would be all over you.

Yeah pretty sure the FAL would be revoked for just being a fucking idiot :thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by Yukon

My interpretation of the law regarding the leaving of a firearm in an unattended vehicle is:

You must keep your firearm with you at all time, even if you need to go into a bank, or a restaurant, supermarket or wherever..

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Arms Act 1983

51 Unlawful carriage or possession in public place of firearm, airgun, pistol, ammunition, explosive, or restricted weapon

(1) Every person commits an offence and is liable on conviction to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 3 years or a fine not exceeding $4,000 or to both who, except for some lawful purpose,—

(a) carries in a public place; or

(b) has in his possession in any public place— any firearm, airgun, pistol, ammunition, explosive, or restricted weapon.

(2) In any prosecution for an offence against subsection (1), in which it is proved that the defendant was carrying in any public place or had in his possession in any public place any firearm, airgun, pistol, ammunition, explosive, or restricted weapon, the burden of proving the existence of some lawful purpose shall lie on the defendant.

Burden of proof.

That would also depened on the officer at the scene, would it not?
Pot kuck with the right or wrong officer.

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Originally Posted by Comfortably_Numb

Burden of proof.

That would also depened on the officer at the scene, would it not?
Pot kuck with the right or wrong officer.

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Yes as it's up to the officer whether he presses charges or not.
But there's few town cops who are understanding towards firearms, there's a reason my AO doesn't let them sign our mail order forms.

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Originally Posted by Comfortably_Numb

Burden of proof.

That would also depened on the officer at the scene, would it not?
Pot kuck with the right or wrong officer.

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I think the burden of proof referred to is after the defendant has been charged with the offense as defined in subsection (1).

Correct.

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Originally Posted by Kscott

Police secure their firearms in a lock box. Regardless, in the execution of their duties they have a lot more free range than the public, from using a cellphone to driving above the speed limit. If they break those limits they are prosecuted, but comparing them to the general public activities is a losing battle.

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And so it should be...

Easy.

Tell the young one not to use their cellphone while driving unless it's a hands free kit.

If a Police car drove off a cliff, would they ?

News flash - people in authority are human and do shit that annoys others. Teachers, Police, Military, Politicians - the list is endless.

Not all teachers are pedophiles.
Not all Police are rapists.
Not all Military are gun toting bullies.
Not all politicians are liars. Well ok, I lied about that last one :-)

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Originally Posted by GravelBen

I dunno, you might be going hunting somewhere that is far enough away from home that you need to refuel on the way. Not much choice about stopping at a petrol station then is there.

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Well, to follow along with Kscott's super anal logic - you should have taken 20 fuel tanks with you just in case such a situation arose :P. But then when you stepped out of your car would you carry the firearm while refilling with one of your 20 tanks, or would you still be in breach of the law by leaving it in a locked car a few cm away?

I do get what he's trying to say, but agree with others that not every situation can be predicted. If the worst thing that ever happens is you have to leave a firearm locked in your car while you go in and pay for your fuel then you're probably doing a lot better than most. If it's a choice between that and carry your rifle in to the servo I think I know what most of us are going to do.

At the end of the day the law can't account for every single possible situation. Some common sense has to be used at some point.

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Originally Posted by Mauser308

? I see an officer driving a marked car through a roundabout yakking on a cellphone at the same time I'm trying to convince a young one that talking on a phone and driving is bad - not a flash look at all. And, it's not a one off around here - I respect the job they do, but lead by example springs to mind. If it's urgent they have lights and sirens otherwise set the example and pull the hell over like the rest of the known world...

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Yeah unfortunately they are allowed to use the phone while driving while on the job. I don't agree with it either as it is still using up the same amount of concentration etc. Pretty silly really.

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Originally Posted by MattyP

.....At the end of the day the law can't account for every single possible situation. Some common sense has to be used at some point.

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The common sense thing to do if you had to make a quick petrol/diesel stop is to make sure any firearm is covered up and the car is locked. If you had to answer the call of nature then ask the staff to watch your vehicle in your absence.