Thread: Firearms ban in Western aussie

Originally Posted by Flyblown

Bollocks.

I’ve lived there twice in the 90s and 2010s and got my licence no problem both times, well within the time period they said it would be. Zero problems.

There’s a lot misinformation as usual, regarding this latest ban. As hunters in New Zealand - and Australia - we need to look at it in context. We are talking about 248 individual rifles. Not as some outlets would have you believe, over “200 types of hunting rifle”.

Read the list again and ask yourself how many hunters there are using those chamberings to either provide meat or control the considerable ungulate pest problem in W.A. I’ve been in contact with a bunch of my mates in Oz that I’ve hunted with all over from the Top End to the Snowies, and no one has a problem with it.

Personally, I’d remove the 28 Nosler and .300 Norma Mag off the list.

The ELR target guys are unfortunate collateral in a social battle we are fighting that will rumble on for years. My advice is pick your battles carefully, to win the war.

Originally Posted by veitnamcam

That's great for you that you are not concerned.
However you should be concerned.
Having vanilla flavored chamberings is not going to help you or me.
The powers that be want us disarmed and that's the end of it.
That's why we won't see another war.....

This is exactly why we deserve to loose everything. When they came for our semi autos they nodded their heads in agreement and now bit by bit they come back for the rest. Don't say we didn't tell you so.

Originally Posted by Flyblown

Cartridges mate, cartridges. Start with getting that bit right and maybe the rest will follow.

I have absolutely no concern whatsoever about my regular hunting cartridges.

I don't want to insult anyone but I just don't know what to say...

Originally Posted by 300CALMAN

This is exactly why we deserve to loose everything. When they came for our semi autos they nodded their heads in agreement and now bit by bit they come back for the rest. Don't say we didn't tell you so.

I don't deserve to lose everything...I argued for semi owners rights and I didn't even own one!
But I could see it coming.

Originally Posted by Flyblown

Bollocks.

There’s a lot misinformation as usual, regarding this latest ban. As hunters in New Zealand - and Australia - we need to look at it in context. We are talking about 248 individual rifles. Not as some outlets would have you believe, over “200 types of hunting rifle”.

Read the list again and ask yourself how many hunters there are using those chamberings to either provide meat or control the considerable ungulate pest problem in W.A. I’ve been in contact with a bunch of my mates in Oz that I’ve hunted with all over from the Top End to the Snowies, and no one has a problem with it.

Personally, I’d remove the 28 Nosler and .300 Norma Mag off the list.

The ELR target guys are unfortunate collateral in a social battle we are fighting that will rumble on for years. My advice is pick your battles carefully, to win the war.

WTF - Seriously - SO it only affects 248 guns, but really - the owners have been vetted as suitable, a 338 kills just as effectively as a 270 - no rabbit I have shot asks if it was the 22 magnum or 7mm mag that shot it.

They have a register of those guns, they take them away , it doesnt affect many - so that makes it ok?.

In a couple of years they come out with a list including the 7mm Mag and any number of other good cartridges, that you utilise, is your response going to be the same?

I like souped up overly powerful cars - some politicians decides these sorts of cars are excessively dangerous, and proactively they should be removed off the roads cause - you know - they could kill.

Has someone done a cost benefit analysis here? - Of course not - I would be surprised if any of those calibres have featured in an Australian murder ( I could stand corrected)

The most dangerous firearms for killing based on statistics is .22 and shotgun and probably the ole .303 -( ok a 7,62/39 and 5.56 featured in 50 odd deaths here, but only one shooter.) - depends how you want to make your statistics lie.

Take this as an absolute lesson on the good reason we have a register - for the public good of course, that the LFOs are paying for.

I watched the Police Commissonare and the Premier on TV last night announcing the confiscation they couldn't contain there glee, there are more major announcements to come. I fully expect to be fighting tooth and nail to retain my rifles over the next 12 months and can see only rural landowners having the right to own a firearm in the future.

Originally Posted by veitnamcam

I don't deserve to lose everything...I argued for semi owners rights and I didn't even own one!
But I could see it coming.

I know, sometimes and we shouldn't be a political football, but that's what we are now.

I will probably never own or want to own a 416 cheytac (ore even a 28 Nosler) but i would definitely fight for your right to.

@Flyblown so by your judgement that it is a military cartridge, you would clearly support the potential ban of 308, 223, 7.62x39, 8mm mauser, 303 British , 6.5x55, 7.5x55 et al as they were ALL developed for military use....

What dont you get? Compromise is NOT what they are after....Divide and conquer is what they are after. As far as the powers pushing the bans are concerned, they want everything- start with semi auto...next it was pump action, now larger calibres next smaller calibre then it will be the 22s.

Also going by your logic the speed limit is 100km so ANYTHING capable of going faster is obviously targeted at criminal use so ban it. V8 ....nope too powerful - dont need that much power..., Sorts bikes Nope too fast - dont need fast........

What ever rifle or calibre you have in your cupboard, it is on their list...maybe not this time, maybe not next time,,,,,but it is there and they do NOT want you to have it.

Originally Posted by Flyblown

You know what? My son advised me not to reply to this. He’s 16. And he was right. Bugger that.

But what you’ve said is a load of bollocks! And this is the problem with the internet…

One random example…

The .408 Cheyenne Tactical (designated 408 Chey Tac (10.36×77mm) by the C.I.P.[3] from 2013 to 2021) is a specialized rimless, bottlenecked, centerfire cartridge for military long-range sniper rifles that was developed by Dr. John D. Taylor and machinist William O. Wordman. The round was designed with a possible military need for a cartridge for anti-personnel, anti-sniper, and anti-materiel roles with a (supersonic) precision range of 2,200 yards (2,000 m). It is offered as a competitor to the most common military NATO long-range service cartridges such as .338 Lapua Magnum and the .50 BMG.

@Flyblown so by your judgement that it is a military cartridge, you would clearly support the potential ban of 308, 223, 7.62x39, 8mm mauser, 303 British , 6.5x55, 7.5x55 30/06 and derivitaves , 45/70 et al as they were ALL developed for military use....

What dont you get? Compromise is NOT what they are after....Divide and conquer is what they are after. As far as the powers pushing the bans are concerned, they want everything- start with semi auto...next it was pump action, now larger calibres next smaller calibre then it will be the 22s.

Also going by your logic the speed limit is 100km so ANYTHING capable of going faster is obviously targeted at criminal use so ban it. V8 ....nope too powerful - dont need that much power..., Sorts bikes Nope too fast - dont need fast........

What ever rifle or calibre you have in your cupboard, it is on their list...maybe not this time, maybe not next time,,,,,but it is there and they do NOT want you to have it.

Originally Posted by tac a1

Because that is what war is mate. Old men talking and arguing. Young men dying. Nothing more, nothing less.

And you become a pawn for their egos

Originally Posted by Maca49

And these same people will have no qualms about arming you to the teeth with all sorts of nasty shit and sending you to war to kill people and die for them.
But they hate you to have access to firearms.
Go figure

It is fucking farcical Maca. The dickheads that initiate and pass these banned firearms/cartridge laws have zero understanding about the subject matter. Taking away a .338 Lapua from a firearms owner on the basis that they are being proactive because it could be used against the Police and leaving that firearms owner with his/her .17HMR is just extreme nonsense. I have no doubt that the same firearms owner could place a projectile from a .17HMR with lethal accuracy were he/she inclined to do so. The point in all of this is that the people who have rifles with the calibres/ cartridge types on the WA banned list are not so inclined and therefor to ban them is nothing more than dumbwankery.

Originally Posted by 300CALMAN

This is exactly why we deserve to loose everything. When they came for our semi autos they nodded their heads in agreement and now bit by bit they come back for the rest. Don't say we didn't tell you so.

Nz deerstalkers got a quick lesson in that. Plonkers

Originally Posted by Danger Mouse

Nz deerstalkers got a quick lesson in that. Plonkers

What are you on about ?,

Clearly you didn't see the work that went into submissions & appearances in front of the select committee

You are possibly thinking of Fish & Game, Federated Farmers, Hunting & Fishing or Davey Hughes

The amount of time, effort & resources that the NZDA put into advocacy on behalf the hunting/shooting community, not just their members is enormous and on going

Originally Posted by timattalon

@Flyblown so by your judgement that it is a military cartridge, you would clearly support the potential ban of 308, 223, 7.62x39, 8mm mauser, 303 British , 6.5x55, 7.5x55 30/06 and derivitaves , 45/70 et al as they were ALL developed for military use....

What dont you get? Compromise is NOT what they are after....Divide and conquer is what they are after. As far as the powers pushing the bans are concerned, they want everything- start with semi auto...next it was pump action, now larger calibres next smaller calibre then it will be the 22s.

Also going by your logic the speed limit is 100km so ANYTHING capable of going faster is obviously targeted at criminal use so ban it. V8 ....nope too powerful - dont need that much power..., Sorts bikes Nope too fast - dont need fast........

What ever rifle or calibre you have in your cupboard, it is on their list...maybe not this time, maybe not next time,,,,,but it is there and they do NOT want you to have it.

@timattalon

This is a really good example of the problem with the Internet. I can’t be bothered to respond to the rest of the accusations but I’ll reply to you because it’s an interesting leap of logic that you’ve made.

@GDMP said the cartridges being banned were sporting cartridges.

I looked again at the list and saw a couple of cartridges that are definitely sporting (which I had already stated should be removed from the list), and I saw several that are purpose designed heavy calibre cartridges for specialised military use. And I gave one specific example.

You have now jumped to the conclusion that I support the banning of all military originated cartridges. And the cars thing…

It is the how you’ve made the giant leap to that conclusion that interests me. It is unfounded and illogical and stated in an emotional manner... there is nothing I have said that could possibly support your conclusion that I would support the banning of the 308 Winchester for example. I put it down to the hysteria that these things whip up in people when they read words on a small screen on the internet. If you and I were to sit face-to-face and have a conversation about it I am 100% certain that you would reach a different conclusion about how I feel about this latest ban in Western Australia.

The hysteria that has erupted on the Internet over this issue is a good example of what is getting in the way of the development of a strategy to tackle the erosion of firearm ownership in NZ. And boy do we need a robust strategy. The Australians have the SSAA - it is interesting to know that this issue does not appear to even be mentioned on their website (yet). Do you think this has escaped their attention? Of course not. The SSAA is a well-established and competent organisation that has done a lot of very good work winning legal battles against vote chasing politicians on firearms issues. The fact that it is still relatively straightforward for new sports shooters to get into firearms in Australia has a lot to do with the strategy, organisation and influence that the SSAA has brought to the field.

The SSAA will be very carefully plotting their position on this issue. The only way you can maintain a seat at the table is by avoiding the kind of emotional responses that this thread has generated when one guy argues against some of the misleading or incorrect statements. The SSAA will approach this in a much more level headed way. Their position at the Federal government table must not be threatened by the kind of pot stirring that the NSC is engaging in with WARA and WAPOL etc - this latest ban is part of a protracted and really quite dirty political battle at the state level. At the heart of it is the point that I made - that to survive long-term there will need to be some form of compromise by firearms owners and their representatives. To protect the long-term interests of firearms owners Australia wide, the SSAA must remain above the finger-pointing and mudslinging that has been going on in W.A. in the last couple of years.

So please don’t misrepresent what someone says in such a way as to whip up more hysteria. Pick your battles. The biggest issue we have here in New Zealand is we are insufficiently organised. Instead of ranting on the Internet against anything remotely associated with restriction, join your local NZDA and COLFO, attend meetings, pay fees, be part of the long-term organised response to this deeply rooted problem facing us.

Originally Posted by Flyblown

Since when has politics been any different? This is clearly just a window dressing exercise in response to the most recent firearms nightmare in Aus. But will fighting it actually make any difference? Do people in the suburbs even take any notice? I doubt most even know about it.

But what does happen is an overblown emotional response on social media from firearms owners who are not in the slightest bit affected by a very minor tweak to the rules. Seriously, you need to go and have a look at some of the stuff that’s been written about this on the forums elsewhere.

The SSAA and the like should be making a much longer term and deeper rooted effort to demonstrate to suburban metropolitan Australians what firearms actually achieve in the outback. To be fair I think COLFO and Maori TV in particular have been doing a pretty good job of that over here in recent times. I don’t think the average non-gun person really has a problem with what we do.

We must learn the art of compromise to survive. I’ve lived in W.A. for years and I can assure you that 248 rifles out of the overall population is absolutely fuck all! Don’t let the 0.1% of the tail wag the rest of the dog.

Interesting comments, although a sentiment that I do not really agreee with.

What percentage is acceptable when it comes to sacrificing fellow shooters ? 1% seems to have worked in the past if you think of the 2500 odd service rifle and 3-gun shooters after CHC. Has that made NZ any safer ?

In NZ the next target seems to be the field shooting crowd (probably an even smaller number), especially those using magnum calibers like those mentioned in the WA policy. I've sat in meetings with senior police members who are directly responsible for administering the arms act here, and was told to my face that field and especially "long range" shooting is a high risk area for NZ police, yet they have absolutely zero evidence to justify the risk they perceive.

I guess if you want to live in a world where flat range target shooting, shotgun and "acceptable hunting" are the only options allowed, then fine.