Firearms ban in Western aussie

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Originally Posted by Beavis

NZDA has a had quite a clean out in recent years and their advocacy around firearm laws has been pretty solid as of late

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Have realised the writing on the wall perhaps....?

Sent from my SM-T225 using Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by Flyblown

No shit.

If you want to be successful in this quest, then you need to tell the dispossessed to stop the anti-police ranting.

There’s all sorts of ways that I can say that last sentence. It makes me really angry, the way the dispossessed shit in their own nest and make all of us look terrible. We all carry the can for a small minority’s inability to accept reality.

The dispossessed have lost the room. Many, a great many, ordinary hunters no longer give a fuck about the losses of whatever minority category of sports shooter under the buy-back. This is evidenced in NZDA meetings and elsewhere. They see the anti-police rhetoric online - a constant and worsening threat - and hate it with a passion because of what it enables. Police read everything.

Stop the anti-police rhetoric.

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What is anti police ranting? Blaming the police hierarchy that is targeting us? I suspect you come from a police state which lacks freedom of speech. Let me explain something New Zealand is (or maybe was) a country with free speech. I hope you casn understand that.

By the way being nice to them (the police and politicians) will achieve nothing, please show me where it worked? In fact the only place that seem to have manged to keep their right to own guns so far is (most) of the US and they didn't achieve that by being nice.

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Originally Posted by Tahr

The majority are not lemmings. They actually think they are doing the right thing. As you do.

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Fair enough. What cannot be ignored however, is that they are being steered in that direction by the government and the media.

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Originally Posted by Tahr

It could be argued that your minority views reflect those of a lemming. Following the line that will gain you the most approval from your peer group inspite of the futility of it and the many failed strategies.

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What dross. I do not subscribe to the group-think model you seem so fond of. Remember, dead fish swim with the stream. I stand against continual erosion of my rights and freedoms. Your little chirp on the Truths thread about me liberally exercising my S14 rights - goddamn right I will exercise them. Just like S10, S11, S18 (but we aren't allowed to talk about those).

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Originally Posted by Tahr

You are correct, if there is another heinous gun crime committed public opinion will be galvanised as strong as previously or stronger against us. Get ready for it and get ready to lose - because your bloody minded and blinkered opposition wont mean a shit. Regardless of who is in power. With your approach you will be left negotiating for crumbs.

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Historically the only compromise comes from LFOs.

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Originally Posted by Tahr

Fortunately in the main the people who will be lobbying on our behalves, even the most conservative of them, will be taking a more reasonable and nuanced approach so not all will be lost.

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Oh right, just like the other times, where things continually went backwards instead of maintaining the status quo.

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Originally Posted by Danger Mouse

Case in point, everybody was happy to sacrifice e cat shooters to try and save themselves even thought that would never happen, and they were told it wouldn't work.

Now you want sympathy? Now you want to stick together? No, it's a case of those next on the chopping block wanting more voices to defend them after throwing others under the bus.

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who said anyone was HAPPY TO SACRIFICE e cat shooters????????
it was going to happen no matter what the entire shooting community did....and as flyblown has said above,a vast majority of shooting community had seen the shit going on before hand and the anti police spewing out now has been final straw in turning them off listening.
when said eCAT USERS deliberately flouted the rules and supported importers of goods to further pervert said laws,they were shitting in the communal nest
I shall type that out again SHITTING IN THE COMMUNAL NEST.
thrown under bus my arse...collateral damage YES. unfortunate causulty caught in cross fire from kneejerk excuse to forfill predeterminded ajenda YES but the were not in any way thrown under bus but other firearm users.......no more than they ere after aromoana shootings saw law changes to lower magazine capacity and new endorsement category created..... the laws were there to allow these firearm types to be used in responsible manner AND VAST MAJORITY OF FOLKS DID COMPLY....but some didnt and it bit EVERYONE in the arse....and the biting is still going on.

My areas has been so well bitten that it now has a hole in it.

it has been pointed out my above post may well be unfair...I shall amend my comment to say...... it was actions of SOME MSSA users not Ecat holders that were the issue.....the bending/breaking of rules were being encouraged by a certain retailer and had been done so for such a long time it had almost become accepted as "normal behaviour"
shitting in communal nest.

it is my belief that bashing police actions and threatening to carry out illegal acts is also shitting in communal nest.

ALL people involved in firearms usage no matter what shape of form need to clean up their shit period no exceptions or all will suffer the backlash.

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Originally Posted by Micky Duck

the anti police spewing out now has been final straw in turning them off listening

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That's quite a claim, do you have any evidence to back it up?

[QUOTE=Micky Duck;1417165]it has been pointed out my above post may well be unfair...I shall amend my comment to say...... it was actions of SOME MSSA users not Ecat holders that were the issue.....the bending/breaking of rules were being encouraged by a certain retailer and had been done so for such a long time it had almost become accepted as "normal behaviour"
shitting in communal nest.

it is my belief that bashing police actions and threatening to carry out illegal acts is also shitting in communal nest.

ALL people involved in firearms usage no matter what shape of form need to clean up their shit period no exceptions or all will suffer the backlash.[/p

Sadly @Micky Duck your last line will never be adhered to by the likes of gang members, the ones with an unknown quantity of firearms and who will never. ‘Clean up their shit’ - and laws aimed at them will affect all law abiding FAL holders as collateral damage.

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Originally Posted by 300CALMAN

That's quite a claim, do you have any evidence to back it up?

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yes.many discussions with other firearms users/hunters over the last 20 years where you may be surprised to hear,I was advocating for folks to be allowed to use whatever they wanted..... plus PMs with members of this and other forums who had dropped out/off and when asked why they had..answer was always the same,they didnt want to be associated with folks spewing out anti police,anti govt stuff continually one was worried he would loose his job if continued to be member of website.

fit n proper sort of thing.
your FAL, your right to gamble it however you see fit...just dont expect me to see and raise you with my own.

We all know that policing is a tough job and that there are many dedicated professionals within its ranks. However, pointing out historical facts and justified criticism of policy that comes down the pipe, is not "anti-police".

by same token pointing out that Mr so and so who held FAL and sold guns to gangs by said police is not anti general FAL user
by pointing out that fk wit who shot up people worshipping held a fal isnt pointing finger at all FAL holders but again they/we are all caught up in cross fire
by pointing out police didnt vet said fk wit properly and screaming they are responsible means they responded to said critisysm by making it tougher to get licence,which is what you asked them to do..... banning certain types of firearm at sametime was because its what those elected told them to do..we were caught in crossfire,innocent or not.
the police have to try and curb/be seen to try and curb, the deviant behaviour of the few,and the many are caught in crossfire.
keep shiting in communal nest and the sanitisation will continue.

Well good luck with that philosophy. I can't see any evidence there to back up your claim in it. I would also raise you the reason for this thread being the WA gun confiscation where there is no apparent "Shitting In The Nest" involved. I think it's far more likely that there is a general reluctance to accept that there is a significant political move to remove firearms from the public at a much higher level. Interesting how it's happening in Canada also. But there you go, call me whatever you want but ultimately "being good" won't help you.

Go look at the UK and see where going along and not making a fuss gets you.
Especially now that we have more, and more senior Police staff from the UK.

As pointed out above, it is not anti Police to ask them to do their job, and ask for better when they don't. Pretty much everyone who works would be living that reality.

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Originally Posted by 300CALMAN

That's quite a claim, do you have any evidence to back it up?

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There probably isn't anything to back the claim up. And I doubt anti-police rhetoric has had a significant impact on their attitude in general. Apart from making them more cynical, and likely wanting to punch a few people in the chops.

A reframe would be "people who spew anti police rhetoric because of gun issues are unlikely to be listened to or taken seriously".

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Originally Posted by 300CALMAN

Well good luck with that philosophy. I can't see any evidence there to back up your claim in it. I would also raise you the reason for this thread being the WA gun confiscation where there is no apparent "Shitting In The Nest" involved. I think it's far more likely that there is a general reluctance to accept that there is a significant political move to remove firearms from the public at a much higher level. Interesting how it's happening in Canada also. But there you go, call me whatever you want but ultimately "being good" won't help you.

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ummmmm heeellloooo I have typed that banning certain types of firearm at same time was because its what those that were elected told them to do....we were caught in cross fire like it or not.......
Helen Clark signed us up to do so with UN and cinders was just following through on that.....
call me whatever you like but ultimately "being naughty" wont help you.

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Originally Posted by Micky Duck

it has been pointed out my above post may well be unfair...I shall amend my comment to say...... it was actions of SOME MSSA users not Ecat holders that were the issue.....the bending/breaking of rules were being encouraged by a certain retailer and had been done so for such a long time it had almost become accepted as "normal behaviour"
shitting in communal nest.

it is my belief that bashing police actions and threatening to carry out illegal acts is also shitting in communal nest.

ALL people involved in firearms usage no matter what shape of form need to clean up their shit period no exceptions or all will suffer the backlash.

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@7mmwsm

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Originally Posted by Micky Duck

Helen Clark signed us up to do so with UN and cinders was just following through on that..

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AHHHH there we go. Weather we like it or not we are being crushed under a larger political movement, firearms are only one thing.. There are many more parts to this movement.

Anyway, it will slowly but surely impede on your life in one way or another, enjoy!

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Originally Posted by 7mmwsm

Micky it wasn't true e cat people flouting the rules. It a cat holders wanting e cat guns. They could have left e cat as it was. A cat shooters would have bitched and moaned, but they could still applied for e.

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And there is a summation of the short-sightedness of the politicians et al.....When the difference between a restricted (E) firearm and a 'normal' (A) firearm is whether it has a particular type of handle attached or a bayonet mount fitted it shows they wanted these gone any way they could. They knew they couldn't ban them way back when they dreamed up E cat / MSSA as they knew the public would see it for what it was.....Solution ; mismanage the whole system, rob all of the funding and resources for it, let it fall over - then when it all turns to shit, muster uninformed outcry, blame those who were not the problem and start their banning starting with E cat- progressing to whatever they can add bit by bit....


Everytime it is the LFAO who are asked to compromise....which has got us this far...and now we are being asked to 'compromise' again...I put compromise in brackets because compromise means that both parties settle in the middle. AS LFAOs we have done ALL the compromising...and the antis (govt / police etc) have not budged. it might look like they have for a moment, but as soon as the dust starts to fall down again, they ask for even more. That is not compromise- that is a shafting pure and simple.

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Originally Posted by HG Man

https://www.mediastatements.wa.gov.a...ly%20deadline.

Firearms and ammunition designed to shoot over long ranges with extraordinary power and precision will be outlawed in WA from 1 July
56 types of firearms will become illegal
19 calibres of ammunition will become illegal
A total of 248 licensed firearms in WA will become illegal
The WA Government will fund market-value buyback

.340 Weatherby Magnum
.28 Nosler
.330 Dakota
.338 Lapua
.300 Lapua Magnum
.338-404 Jeffery
.338 Norma Magnum
.338-378 Weatherby Magnum
338 Edge
.30-378 Weatherby Magnum
.300 Norma Magnum
.375 A-Square
.375 Gibbs
.460 Steyr
.375 CheyTac
.416 Barrett
.408 CheyTac
.50 BMG
.55 Boys

He conceded the kinds of rifles being targeted had not previously been used against police officers but said that was not a strong enough reason not to act proactively. “They need to be removed. They’re a threat. You don’t wait until the event happens, you don’t wait until the tragedy occurs to act,” Mr Papalia said.

All my waht...

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So why isn't this fuktard proactively removing the threat of paedophiles and other scum and stop releasing people early from prison the hypocrisy' of it all

In most similar democracies, e.g. UK, gun control has stopped at what the ordinary guy would regard as the typical sporting rifle. It’s been that way for many years now. Gun control as I experienced it did not in any way shape or form stop me from hunting, be it deerstalking, rough shooting with 12ga or rimfire small game shooting.

We all share the same concerns about over-reach and excessive imposition of control due to ulterior motives. If the police motive truly is the removal of all firearms from society, and there is irrefutable evidence that supports this view, then how do you propose we go about stopping it? Because this is the next part of the face-to-face conversation I have with people who are worried about this. They all say the same thing… unless we stop it. But how?

The how part never gets a straight answer.

What do you propose?[/QUOTE]

I should have addressed this before now, but in my eyes the answer is normalisation of the sport, and the tools of the sport. I introduce as many people as I can to hunting - via venison sausages, through taking them target shooting, through talking about pheasant hunting and the dog work that goes with it - all of the joy of the hunting experience.

I'm not trying to turn them into hunters necessarily, just to show them that this is something done by normal people, and no threat to them.

Politicians will vote in response to their perceptions of the electorates willingness to punish them for choices that they oppose. What I mean by that is that most pollies have a hierarchy of motivations. First, re-election. Second, a personal and party series of agendas. Their actions are managed by a question that sounds like "will this hurt my chances of getting back in at the next election?", and if they perceive that the bulk of the population is either actively anti, or at least apathetic to a group (for example, shooters) then they have carte blanche to do what they want, on the grounds that this won't get in the way at the next election. What I am looking to do is to move people from passive/possibly concerned about guns towards either moderately positive, or at worst meh about the question.

The people we should be looking to involve are those on the fence, whose perceptions have been gained through movies, tv and the media and not through contact with decent people who enjoy shooting. Show them the face of sport shooting is not Rambo, but George the mechanic or whomever you are.

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Originally Posted by Ross Nolan

Politicians will vote in response to their perceptions of the electorates willingness to punish them for choices that they oppose. What I mean by that is that most pollies have a hierarchy of motivations. First, re-election. Second, a personal and party series of agendas. Their actions are managed by a question that sounds like "will this hurt my chances of getting back in at the next election?", and if they perceive that the bulk of the population is either actively anti, or at least apathetic to a group (for example, shooters) then they have carte blanche to do what they want, on the grounds that this won't get in the way at the next election. .

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so.....the gangs are left to do as they please and the drug dealers are whacked with wet bus ticket then offered councilling for the trauma afterwards BECAUSE???? the polititions have realised the gangs are now so big that everyone in country who votes is tied into someone with a patch??? and the drug problem is so huge the connection is even bigger...radio as typing this says the addicted in Gisborne will be suffering and may need hospitalization and in some cases deprivation may lead to death.....

Although not "Banned" in South Australia it is very difficult to get a 338 Lapua or any Cheytac chambered rifles for the reason "They could take down a helicopter". Guys that do have them are Landholders with a block over a certain size. Or they have designated their rifles using the metric chambering ie 8.6×70 mm. If you put .338 down as a calibre on a"Permit To Aquire" Firearms branch will call you and ask to specify the chambering.
Unfortunately when Firearms Acts were updated in SA the Act allowed legislation by regulation, The Police wrote both the Act and the regulations. Which they can change (regulations)as they see fit.

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Originally Posted by Micky Duck

radio as typing this says the addicted in Gisborne will be suffering and may need hospitalization and in some cases deprivation may lead to death.....

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Isn’t that typical. Just when I small out of fucks to give.

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Originally Posted by Micky Duck

so.....the gangs are left to do as they please and the drug dealers are whacked with wet bus ticket then offered councilling for the trauma afterwards BECAUSE???? the polititions have realised the gangs are now so big that everyone in country who votes is tied into someone with a patch??? and the drug problem is so huge the connection is even bigger...radio as typing this says the addicted in Gisborne will be suffering and may need hospitalization and in some cases deprivation may lead to death.....

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Can't win 'em all MD.

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Originally Posted by Micky Duck

so.....the gangs are left to do as they please and the drug dealers are whacked with wet bus ticket then offered councilling for the trauma afterwards BECAUSE???? the polititions have realised the gangs are now so big that everyone in country who votes is tied into someone with a patch??? and the drug problem is so huge the connection is even bigger...radio as typing this says the addicted in Gisborne will be suffering and may need hospitalization and in some cases deprivation may lead to death.....

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I think the answer is a whole lot more complex and nuanced than just go hard and lock the sons of bitches up.

There is an employment component, an associates and community component, a pride component, a family component, a money component, a solo parent component, an education component, a lack of belonging, of excitement....and it isn't accidental that gaining a patch involves doing something that makes it impossible to be accepted back into "polite" society.

I don't think that any party is courting the gang vote, but I do think that doing the things that will fix it are going to be hard, and could risk the voter base of some of the parties.

If it was simple the fix would have been done already.

oh dont worry,I dont advocate locking the sons of bitches up..my methods would be rather more "terminal" than that.
simple fix HAS already been done before..but as a nation/society we have got all soft n PC .

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Originally Posted by Micky Duck

so.....the gangs are left to do as they please and the drug dealers are whacked with wet bus ticket then offered councilling for the trauma afterwards BECAUSE???? the polititions have realised the gangs are now so big that everyone in country who votes is tied into someone with a patch??? and the drug problem is so huge the connection is even bigger...radio as typing this says the addicted in Gisborne will be suffering and may need hospitalization and in some cases deprivation may lead to death.....

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Sorry but according to todays information....The gangs are 'community leaders' and have been asked by Nashie to to show leadership and discourage looting in the flooded areas up north...They mobilised 600 police for the protests at parliament, and they mobilised the armed forces for the Chch earthquakes (though unarmed in that role...) And Nash is from up that way somewhere, isnt he?

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Originally Posted by Ross Nolan

I think the answer is a whole lot more complex and nuanced than just go hard and lock the sons of bitches up.

There is an employment component, an associates and community component, a pride component, a family component, a money component, a solo parent component, an education component, a lack of belonging, of excitement....and it isn't accidental that gaining a patch involves doing something that makes it impossible to be accepted back into "polite" society.

I don't think that any party is courting the gang vote, but I do think that doing the things that will fix it are going to be hard, and could risk the voter base of some of the parties.

If it was simple the fix would have been done already.

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Well there will be plenty of opportunity for employment, community pride, family, money and all that you mentioned Ross in the next few years.
I genuinely hope that many will seize the chance to build something amazing for themselves and community

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Originally Posted by mikee

The reason we will lose our hobby in the end is Apathy, that and the fact that most user cannot seem to understand that throwing each under under the bus in the vain and forlorn hope that they will be allowed to continue their particular discipline or hobby in the short term.

Some FAL user groups seem to have the perception than some firearms are "badder" than others based upon the "look", Calibre, action type or the fact that they were "military grade" whatever the hell that means.

I have done my bit with multiple donations to COLFO and other groups, (for all the good it has done) and will continue to do so. I will also continue to support all the different user groups and disciplines even though I am not particularly interested in them.

Hell I would support the Muzzle Loading Morris dancing user group

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So by page 4 I realize the only thing I will get out of this thread is the want to see @mikee morris dancing.

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Originally Posted by sneeze

So by page 4 I realize the only thing I will get out of this thread is the want to see @mikee morris dancing.

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Hey I said I would support them ........................I never said I would demonstrate @sneeze

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Originally Posted by mikee

Hey I said I would support them ........................I never said I would demonstrate @sneeze

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Ah go on, March 12 at the shoot? Half time entertainment..

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Originally Posted by sneeze

Ah go on, March 12 at the shoot? Half time entertainment..

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I may yet be working that day :D

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Originally Posted by mikee

I may yet be working that day :D

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:D Id even pay your entry fee

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Originally Posted by timattalon

Sorry but according to todays information....The gangs are 'community leaders' and have been asked by Nashie to to show leadership and discourage looting in the flooded areas up north...They mobilised 600 police for the protests at parliament, and they mobilised the armed forces for the Chch earthquakes (though unarmed in that role...) And Nash is from up that way somewhere, isnt he?

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Sorry Ross. Tim is right. watch this:
https://youtu.be/yX2TUQWiEC8
that guy is now providing "drug rehab" services for the government
then there was giving the prisoners the vote.

I'm not on the side of the gangs. Not one bit.

What I'm saying is that the current system isn't making things better, and keeping on doing something that you know doesn't work is just stupid.

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Originally Posted by Ross Nolan

I'm not on the side of the gangs. Not one bit.

What I'm saying is that the current system isn't making things better, and keeping on doing something that you know doesn't work is just stupid.

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Well from where I see it, the current policy that is not working goes something along the lines of ...

Punish those who obey the law, and ask kindly for those that flout or ignore the law to please try to do better.....

And I agree wholeheartedly that this policy is not working. Maybe it is time to try going hard on crime and allow those who have proven that they obey the law to continue to do so...

I grew up in an area with significant welfare dependence. I don't see it so much as "deprevation due to circumstances" it's more like due to a bad culture of reliance on the Government.

Some thing that has always stuck with me was a job I was involved with at Sanitarium years and years ago. It was building a machine to put cards into cereal boxes. The machine replaced a lady who used to sit on the line with a bunch of boxes holding different cards in front of her, and she would put one in each box of cereal as it went past.

She was a lovely person, but I very much doubt that she learned to write computer code when her job disappeared. We have lost thousands of those jobs. We used to build TV's here - now we buy them from China or Vietnam using money borrowed from overseas, and those jobs have gone also.

Anyone bought a NZ made or assembled car lately?

I know that there were inefficiencies in local protected manufacture - I was there. I also know that the thousands and thousands of people in those industries were getting more than a pay check out of them. Intangibles like pride, stability, self reliance, trade skills. Old fashioned stuff.

We didn't just throw the baby out with the bathwater, we hired a foreign contractor to do it and wondered where our middle class went afterwards.

On the other hand, Sir Steven and the Warehouse thank you for your contribution - maybe he could sponsor @mikee to take a day for Morris dancing.

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Originally Posted by Ross Nolan

I'm not on the side of the gangs. Not one bit.

What I'm saying is that the current system isn't making things better, and keeping on doing something that you know doesn't work is just stupid.

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You're right - that's the issue in a nutshell with the current firearms proposals. The consequences of the changes and the damage they cause will in no way be anchored to the individuals that did the damage. No individual responsibility, and in a sea of public sector workers the only way you get yourself noticed for career advancement purposes is by being more extreme than the next guy or girl even if what you propose gets watered down before it's implemented. Once implemented fire-forget-move on to the next career advancement project.

In no part of that 'being more extreme' does the reality that what you are proposing needs to actually be effective, economical and maintainable come into it - same issue as roading the guy that builds it does it as cheap as possible then goes back for the maintenance contract. What should happen is the outfit should design, build maintain for 20 years upfront agreement front loaded with the profit component paid out after contract completion. Then we will see roads built correctly, maintenance on a crap build is expensive...

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Originally Posted by Ross Nolan

I think the answer is a whole lot more complex and nuanced than just go hard and lock the sons of bitches up.

There is an employment component, an associates and community component, a pride component, a family component, a money component, a solo parent component, an education component, a lack of belonging, of excitement....and it isn't accidental that gaining a patch involves doing something that makes it impossible to be accepted back into "polite" society.

I don't think that any party is courting the gang vote, but I do think that doing the things that will fix it are going to be hard, and could risk the voter base of some of the parties.

If it was simple the fix would have been done already.

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Well, I'm old fashioned. The primary function of Law and Order is to make sure the honest folk can go about their lawful business in safety. I'm a fan of the outlaw concept. If you are breaking the law, you are outside of it's protection.