Firearms ban in Western aussie

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Originally Posted by ebf

@whanahuia, what you typed in above sounds fairly reasonable...

when you dig into it a little deeper, the reality is unfortunately a bit more complex.

most guys involved in service rifle will be able to tell you long stories how for years and years before CHC, we tried to point out to police how crazy their ever changing rules around MSSA's were. the number of iterations these rules went through, and the amount of loops genuine sport shooters had to go through would surprise you. magazines over a certain capacity WERE restricted to certain endorsement holders. the big failure by police was to allow non-endorsed shooters to buy AR style rifles (this and the ease of purchasing 30 round mags was pointed out to them time and time again).

restrictions on functional characteristics would have made some sense, but what we ended up with was a poorly administered system of rules that really revolved around appearance rather than function.

the reality is that in terms of some lunatic deciding to commit an atrocity with a centerfire rifle, there is very little difference between a 7mm-08, a 7mm RM and a 338 Lapua. in fact, it takes significantly more skill and expense to become proficient with the types of calibers the WA police are now banning...

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Yep, I understand that. And realise the issue was pointed out while police were busy with thier eye on pistol grips etc. But as group we did not do so in a manor that had to be listened too. And while I do recall the issue being brought up, I dont remember any really coherent attempt at changing the situation from us. Dont get me wrong we should not have had to push it. But it was quite obvious for some time that the places attitude to firearms licence holders and groups was dismissive and negative.

And yes those weapons are a hell of expensive, not always practical and probably less lethal to a group than a hunting rifle. However do you think those in a position to ban them will understand that? Do you think they would care?

100% a slippery scope here.
The difference between 300 Norma and 300 PRC/300 WM is only a few hundred FPS, in 95% of circumstances the three cartridges would be used interchangably.

If this is based on certain guns being to big (physically) and snipery it takes very little to expand a ban into cartridges that are ballistically similar to these larger cartridges.
If you look at the cartridges that are popular for short range ELR in the USA (1mile ish) we are talking: 300Norma, 300PRC, 7SAUM, 6.5PRC and other similar cartridges.

Saw this meme on a US forum the other day, obviously not the same circumstance as AU/NZ but seems very relatable.
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I'm bemused at the individual line in the sand mentality. That's why they are going to win. We only win if enough of us draw the same line. If you don't think that's correct , imagine a disciplined force, with the same objective, approaching a bigger force of individuals all doing there own thing. Don't imagine it. Read up on Roman warfare. When I was younger, we wouldn't have even been having this conversation. In a similar circumstance, there would have been a loud resounding voice of "Screw you, Jimmy".

Yeah but we are not going to win by standing up to them. Do you think they care. I went to the Waikato meeting Chris Bishop held on firearms laws. When someone told him we would not vote for them, he pretty openly said we are not a big enough voting block for that to come into the decision making process compared to those who have no opinion or an anti opinion on guns.
He said he would loose his seat if he supported us.
We "win" by thinking smarter and being proactive.

In the case of this particular cartridge ban, it's difficult to rationalize throwing these under the proverbial bus. They talk about how they can penetrate armour but give no nuance to their justification.

What type of armour? What NIJ protection level? What distance? Bare plate or layered? 17hmr can penetrate soft armour panels. Does that need to go too?

It's all just muh feelings and because they can.

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Originally Posted by Tahr

Haven't seen that "fudd" term on here for a while :) What is a Fudd? Perhaps you can name the fudds on here? Does "Fudd" mean "anyone who disagrees with me??"

A balance of views and opinions on here will be of far greater benefit to firearm owners than polarising and name calling will.

I have no wish to see your Glock go to the crusher. Opinions and approaches on how that might be avoided will vary.

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Fudd is a term applied to narrow minded people.

It varies from country to country but the generally accepted norm here is people who think: you only need 1 shot on a animal and 3 shot groups are the standard to measure against. The same people who are ok with owning a BAR/mini 14/ rem 7600 but think AR 15s are weapons of war. The same people who can't see the difference from the anti gun lobby as to how they differentiate a Benelli m2, a generic AR 15 and a 10/22.

It's not name calling its just pointing out flaws in people's logic and how it's the thin edge of a very big wedge that's sure to come.

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Originally Posted by Flyblown

@Tahr, I’m happy to be a forum “fudd”. Just looked it up. Learn something new every day.

It’s really interesting to me how this thread has gone. It’s no surprise though. Question the thinking behind of some of the posters’ comments - e.g. the making stuff up, the “PNHQ want all guns gone” comments, etc - and it doesn’t take long for the snide remarks and general bitter & twisted comments to start rolling in.

This, sadly, is normal.

The snidey remarks are water off a ducks back to me. If that’s all you’ve got to offer, then you’re on a one way ticket to nowhere. What I would prefer to see though is ideas, organisation, planning, actions. What are you actually going to do about it?

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A real simple thing to remember is the bigger picture.


Do not for one second think you're( insert this ban shit won't affect me) firearm of choice won't be affected one day.

Death by 1000 cuts. Pure and simple.

Get voicing concerns with groups that can affect the outcome positively. ACT, COLFO, Democracy nz etc etc...

This sort of infighting and simple mindedness that's been displayed is only ammo for those who want to further reduce our sport bit by bit. Mark my words

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Originally Posted by Rock river arms hunter

A real simple thing to remember is the bigger picture.


Do not for one second think you're( insert this ban shit won't affect me) firearm of choice won't be affected one day.

Death by 1000 cuts. Pure and simple.

Get voicing concerns with groups that can affect the outcome positively. ACT, COLFO, Democracy nz etc etc...

This sort of infighting and simple mindedness that's been displayed is only ammo for those who want to further reduce our sport bit by bit. Mark my words

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No shit.

If you want to be successful in this quest, then you need to tell the dispossessed to stop the anti-police ranting.

There’s all sorts of ways that I can say that last sentence. It makes me really angry, the way the dispossessed shit in their own nest and make all of us look terrible. We all carry the can for a small minority’s inability to accept reality.

The dispossessed have lost the room. Many, a great many, ordinary hunters no longer give a fuck about the losses of whatever minority category of sports shooter under the buy-back. This is evidenced in NZDA meetings and elsewhere. They see the anti-police rhetoric online - a constant and worsening threat - and hate it with a passion because of what it enables. Police read everything.

Stop the anti-police rhetoric.

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Originally Posted by Rock river arms hunter

A real simple thing to remember is

This sort of infighting and simple mindedness that's been displayed is only ammo for those who want to further reduce our sport bit by bit. Mark my words

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there you go...now read it again.
some people do routinely cleanly kill animals with only one shot
doesnt mean they are against magazine fed rifles or shotguns
I gave you clear connections between some rather common firearms and showed you connections between others and how the yare connected and also agreed most are in some way derived from origonal military weapons..heck alot of confederate soldiers used thier own $$$ to purchase henry lever action repeaters..so you could well say a lever action 30/30 .45/70 .45lc 44/40 are or have been weapons of war....nobody is denying that they have been used in war.

Ive shot animals with SLR sks mini14 so yes I DO understand just how good they were.... but they are gone now..and Im enough of a realist to know they arent coming back.... Ive put it in past and like to leave it there,Ive thrown no one under bus.

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Originally Posted by Flyblown

No shit.

If you want to be successful in this quest, then you need to tell the dispossessed to stop the anti-police ranting.

There’s all sorts of ways that I can say that last sentence. It makes me really angry, the way the dispossessed shit in their own nest and make all of us look terrible. We all carry the can for a small minority’s inability to accept reality.

The dispossessed have lost the room. Many, a great many, ordinary hunters no longer give a fuck about the losses of whatever minority category of sports shooter under the buy-back. This is evidenced in NZDA meetings and elsewhere. They see the anti-police rhetoric online - a constant and worsening threat - and hate it with a passion because of what it enables. Police read everything.

Stop the anti-police rhetoric.

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AMEN to that.....agree 100%

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Originally Posted by Flyblown

No shit.

If you want to be successful in this quest, then you need to tell the dispossessed to stop the anti-police ranting.

There’s all sorts of ways that I can say that last sentence. It makes me really angry, the way the dispossessed shit in their own nest and make all of us look terrible. We all carry the can for a small minority’s inability to accept reality.

The dispossessed have lost the room. Many, a great many, ordinary hunters no longer give a fuck about the losses of whatever minority category of sports shooter under the buy-back. This is evidenced in NZDA meetings and elsewhere. They see the anti-police rhetoric online - a constant and worsening threat - and hate it with a passion because of what it enables. Police read everything.

Stop the anti-police rhetoric.

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Lol. Putting your fingers in your ears saying I can't hear you (because lots of people are still angry at police), while not supporting other shooting disciplines bec6"it doesn't affect me" Is the height of stupidity.

I laughed my ass off at nzda when they finally realized the legislation changes were going to impact them.

The previous minister of defence called the police incompetent in administration of the arms act. They are.

case in point.....


now its ok to laugh your ass off at NZDA one breath and say we should all stick together in the next.

I was at the range here a few years ago with my Molot Vepr. It was my main hunting Rifle at the time.

This guy went on a rant saying they should be banned because it was a " Rambo gun". Well five years later they have been, along with his HK 770 and 10/22.

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Originally Posted by Micky Duck

case in point.....


now its ok to laugh your ass off at NZDA one breath and say we should all stick together in the next.

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Case in point, everybody was happy to sacrifice e cat shooters to try and save themselves even thought that would never happen, and they were told it wouldn't work.

Now you want sympathy? Now you want to stick together? No, it's a case of those next on the chopping block wanting more voices to defend them after throwing others under the bus.

NZDA has a had quite a clean out in recent years and their advocacy around firearm laws has been pretty solid as of late