Firearms Project Community Discussion Sessions: FCAF update

[Sasquatch]

@Cordite, I find the whole concept of "shooters throwing other shooters under the bus" a bit strange.

The main divide between shooters that is most apparent to me has been between average-jo duck & deer hunters and people who shoot pistols/MSSA's. Their concept on the matter is "we don't need those type of guns" - We certainly wouldn't use them hunting so those guns should be gone. Even some pistol shooters are anti MSSA's.

When you take a step back and try and look at it from an outside perspective, we all share a common hobby/sport we all enjoy. Why should one overrule the other? Just because one group might be a minority doesn't make them any less important. That it why we need to stand together on this critical matter and defend each others discipline.

I care about deer hunters/long range shooters/clay-bird shooters - You name it! So they should return the favour.

[Cordite]

The main divide between shooters that is most apparent to me has been between average-joe duck & deer hunters and people who shoot pistols/MSSA's. Their concept on the matter is "we don't need those type of guns" - We certainly wouldn't use them hunting so those guns should be gone. Even some pistol shooters are anti MSSA's.

When you take a step back and try and look at it from an outside perspective, we all share a common hobby/sport we all enjoy. Why should one overrule the other? Just because one group might be a minority doesn't make them any less important. That it why we need to stand together on this critical matter and defend each others discipline.

I care about deer hunters/long range shooters/clay-bird shooters - You name it! So they should return the favour.

Hi @Sasquatch

I'm sorry about pissing into your "high-capacity" magazines some months ago.

(I did achieve to fill four of them though, helped in all fairness by the displacement of the cartridges).

[Sasquatch]

Hi @Sasquatch

I'm sorry about pissing into your "high-capacity" magazines some months ago.

(I did achieve to fill four of them though, helped in all fairness by the displacement of the cartridges).

@Cordite If memory serves me right was that about service rifle shooting? No need for an apology your're all good :-)

[Beavis]

The main divide between shooters that is most apparent to me has been between average-jo duck & deer hunters and people who shoot pistols/MSSA's. Their concept on the matter is "we don't need those type of guns" - We certainly wouldn't use them hunting so those guns should be gone. Even some pistol shooters are anti MSSA's.

When you take a step back and try and look at it from an outside perspective, we all share a common hobby/sport we all enjoy. Why should one overrule the other? Just because one group might be a minority doesn't make them any less important. That it why we need to stand together on this critical matter and defend each others discipline.

I care about deer hunters/long range shooters/clay-bird shooters - You name it! So they should return the favour.

This very thing was bought up at the Taupo meeting. One particular gentleman got very vocal about how MSSA's and A cat semi autos are useless for hunting, and that all of them should be restricted to E endorsement holders, because A cat shooters shouldn't have the same firepower as the police. Ironically didn't have an issue with 10/22's or semi auto shotguns. Got very excited again when somebody mentioned E cat security should be the standard across the board, said it would alienate too many people...

One of the main things to come out of our discussion, was that there should be an escalation for when you are having a dispute with an arms officer, without needing to take legal action, or attempt to use the IPCA (who are antigun and always rule in favour of police it seems)

[Sasquatch]

Did anyone counter that man's argument @Beavis?

I struggle with people who choose to be that deliberately naive. Little does that ridiculous man know, LFAO's will always have more firepower then the police which is a pointless remark regardless.

[ebf]

Yup agree with what you guys are saying.

Those differences were clear in Welly as well. What gets me is that most of the B and E endorsement holders are very well aware of the fact that they need to be self policing their mates. It is in their interest to do so. We do not have the same understanding amongst the average A license holders.

Excellent point about escalation @Beavis, hopefully that gets some traction.

[Beavis]

Did anyone counter that man's argument @Beavis?

I struggle with people who choose to be that deliberately naive. Little does that ridiculous man know, LFAO's will always have more firepower then the police which is a pointless remark regardless.

I pointed out that:

There really isn't much evidance to call for that - our firearm crime is really low, despite the proliferation of semi auto rifles

The same A cat shooter can go to the local gun store and get a Beretta Extrema and fill it up with buck shot, have an equally deadly weapon depending on the circumstances

But the conversation got shut down by Mike because it was irrelevant to the meeting.

We also recommended that payment for licensing be facilitated online - Mike was keen on this, more or less said it should be a given in this day and age.

I bought up examples of AO's interpreting the arms act to suit their own prejudices or what not. Mike stated that it is a training issue and they had dropped the ball on this. I also mentioned that front counter staff should be able to handle mail order forms without fobbing it off as no their responsibility. Another training issue to be resolved.

[Jexla]

I pointed out that:

There really isn't much evidance to call for that - our firearm crime is really low, despite the proliferation of semi auto rifles

The same A cat shooter can go to the local gun store and get a Beretta Extrema and fill it up with buck shot, have an equally deadly weapon depending on the circumstances

But the conversation got shut down by Mike because it was irrelevant to the meeting.

We also recommended that payment for licensing be facilitated online - Mike was keen on this, more or less said it should be a given in this day and age.

I bought up examples of AO's interpreting the arms act to suit their own prejudices or what not. Mike stated that it is a training issue and they had dropped the ball on this. I also mentioned that front counter staff should be able to handle mail order forms without fobbing it off as no their responsibility. Another training issue to be resolved.

Yup Napier went much the same way.

Had fudd and son hunters there, trying to suggest there should also be a practical element to getting E cat also as well as the changes to getting a standard license, then when question about it started to tell us about the fully auto firearms we were shooting.
Was quickly cut down, but made a nuisance the rest of the meeting.

Mike asked me to email him details about my gas block import permit saga after telling him about it. Whilst he seemed genuine at the time, I continue to have little faith anything will come from it.

Link about the gas block import permit story: https://www.facebook.com/firearmowne...65547177117866

[Backcut]

I was at todays meeting , and I will put my hand up and say that I suggested the idea of the Police having a web page that was updated often with relevant information. I think that was reasonably received , and we may see that sometime in the future.

The Police are not going to muzzle that idiot Cahill. That is patently obvious - the Police appear unwilling to even discuss issues with him. I asked what they were going to do to counteract the outright lies that the guy tells and I got a sanitized , politicians answer that basically went " blah blah blah" - so dont expect to see anything there. Very little interest in countering those lies in the media , and not a very popular view of social media either .

But - Mike did listen , take notes , and appeared to be genuine . Only time will tell , I am not holding my breathe waiting...

I had a sit down with McIlraith a year ago about the website idea. He gave me the same shit. I followed up and even spoke to his tech guy about it. Same patronizing shit. Its something they could do fast and cheep and solve a lot of small issues. But no.

[Backcut]

Dates and times are not very user friendly to the general WORKING interested party.
Is that a deliberate ploy

They didnt even invite dealers. Or clubs. They just want to tick the box.

[Backcut]

I just raised the subject of not enough meetings in metro areas with the local AO, yet to get a reply, has anyone else done the same, surely COLFO,etc will be on it.

Yeah.... COLFO are defending it. Saying that we need to understand that police are fitting us in around other things. Wow. You spoil us. Is this how a side chick feels?

[Backcut]

No. He is a time share salesman. Pure bullshit. I showed him that police had invented law in a mail order form. He agreed immediately. Nothing happened for months. After it was publicized too much for his liking. Zero trust left for the man. Have had MANY other dealings with him where he displays utter contempt.

[10-Ring]

No. He is a time share salesman. Pure bullshit. I showed him that police had invented law in a mail order form. He agreed immediately. Nothing happened for months. After it was publicized too much for his liking. Zero trust left for the man. Have had MANY other dealings with him where he displays utter contempt.

Backcut, is the "he" you are referring to here McIlraith or someone in COLFO?

[40mm]

Yup Napier went much the same way.

Had fudd and son hunters there, trying to suggest there should also be a practical element to getting E cat also as well as the changes to getting a standard license, then when question about it started to tell us about the fully auto firearms we were shooting.
Was quickly cut down, but made a nuisance the rest of the meeting.

Mike asked me to email him details about my gas block import permit saga after telling him about it. Whilst he seemed genuine at the time, I continue to have little faith anything will come from it.

Link about the gas block import permit story: https://www.facebook.com/firearmowne...65547177117866

morons. or moreoffs

[marky123]

No,fudds who think firearms controls will stop at ‘a’ category definition.I did invite them to a club where they could see b and e cat guns but they didn’t take me up...