Firearms Project Community Discussion Sessions: FCAF update

[Pengy]

That's pretty cool. It's almost as if word has finally got around... That would be the biggest so far?

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

Word must have travelled via the internet, which would still, imho, be a better way to conduct such a survey.

[gonetropo]

yep, there was a call of show of hands who thinks cahill is ok. 100% no hands

[Husky1600]

I've just got back from tonights meeting in ChCh. Thought it was a pretty decent meeting, Mike spoke well, appeared to be honestly trying to do something positive, and had a sense of humour. After all the scaremongering from various people and groups, I was quite surprised at how well it went. There were a number of very good points put forward by some eloquent speakers, and they were listened to. We can only hope, but it looks like Mike may be in it for the long haul. And he said on a number of occasions " the Arms Act is not changing" However on a number of occasions he also said "they" are in the process of updating/writing policy, so the devil will be in the detail.

[Cordite]

I've just got back from tonights meeting in ChCh. Thought it was a pretty decent meeting, Mike spoke well, appeared to be honestly trying to do something positive, and had a sense of humour. After all the scaremongering from various people and groups, I was quite surprised at how well it went. There were a number of very good points put forward by some eloquent speakers, and they were listened to. We can only hope, but it looks like Mike may be in it for the long haul. And he said on a number of occasions " the Arms Act is not changing" However on a number of occasions he also said "they" are in the process of updating/writing policy, so the devil will be in the detail.

What the... with all respect, last time I checked New Zealand was a democracy, and MP's had all been to school and could read letters. Just saying.

[Cordite]

Do you read their (COLFO's) news letters/follow their facebook page?

That's the best way to see what they're up to. Up to you to decide if that's something you want to financially support or not.

This is their latest news letter: Colfo News Issue - 3 2018

All COLFO news: News

@Jexla

Writing style at COLFOs is professional, not too emotional/aggressive (but maybe not super for the age of sound bites). Thanks for the link.

Problem with some firearm blogs can be rudeness / aggression, which does not sit well with a fit and proper person with access to firearms, and it is not likely to win converts.

On a more implicit level, aggression indicates someone on his/her back foot, that is, the losing side. And readers (most being sheep) prefer to side with majority opinions, at least when it comes to getting counted.

Humour on the other hand can be deeply persuasive as you have to accept some element of truth in a joke to laugh at it.

[ebf]

Cordite, both serve their purposes.

Think of COLFO as the NZ Police and FOUNZ/KGB etc as Police Assoc, saying what COLFO can not be seen to be saying...

COLFO represents organisations and associations. They need to take direction from those organisations, many of those do not want to be seen to be rocking the boat. The exco of COLFO is publicly identified, as opposed to blogs, forums etc which may be one person ranting or have solid support. Richard Lincoln stood up in front of a select committee couple years ago and claimed to represent 250 000 license holders when it was patently clear that he did not have that support(anyone remember his farcical opt-out scheme ?). Politicians are not stupid, they are more likely to listen to reasonable articulate debate rather than ranting.

[Danger Mouse]

Article in the Herald this morning.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/a...ectid=12073599

My response to the author.

Good morning,

I am writing to you to point out several falsehoods in this article. I Realise that you are quoting police association president Chris Cahill and that you may not personally have an extensive knowledge of firearms and firearms legislation within New Zealand, but I also feel it* is important to have complete and balanced reporting. NZ firearms license holders have become increasingly frustrated over misleading comments by Mr Cahill over the last 18 months. It needs to be realized that license holders are not the issue wihin New Zelaand.


Mr cahill has repeatedly lied to New Zealand throught the media. For example, hclaims that 55,000 firearms are imported into the country every year. This is a lie. offical information act requests show that the true number is half that. When you consider that there is 250,000 license holders in new zealand, this does not equate to huge number being imported.


During the firearms select comittee that was establish to investigate how criminals are aquiring firearms, and how to prevent this, the police associations recommendations did not include any actions towards criminals. at all. Crimes with firearms in NZ frequently result in home detention. Why is crime with a deadly item not being punished severly? When questioned why Mr Cahill did not recommend greater sentences being used for firearms crime, he responded along the lines of 'becuase labour government will not do it'. NZ firearms license holders care more about police welfare in regards to firearms than the police association president!


In this article Mr cahill is essentially saying, our data is incomplete therefore firearms crime is a problem. This is completely illogical and would be a fail in statistics 101. The man is running is own anti firearms agenda and his focus of attention is the very people that are obeying the law - liecense holders.


"Surely a small country that registers its cars, boats, dogs, births, deaths and marriages can co-operate on accounting for lethal weapons – who has them, who has on-sold them, who has lost them or had them stolen." This statement is based on logical fallacies and misleading inuendo. Certain types of firearm in NZ ARE currently registered, and the registry has an alarmingly high rate of innacuracy. It has also never been audited. How can registration be carried out if the current fraction of friearms that are registered be so horribly innaccruate? What does this registration achieve? Criminals will not register their firearms before comitting a crime. police do not even place any priority of thefts of firearms from license holders, with some thefts of firearms being unattended by nz police, and in other instances the 'attendance' being a phone call.


Currently police do not data match with australia. This has resulted in deported gang members from australia being granted NZ firearms licenses by nz police. They have then gone on to purchase firearms for gangs, and Mr Cahill then attempted to blame law abiding license holders for this situation. This adversial attitude has been detrimental to police/license holder relationships within NZ.


Surely it would be more effective to enforce* current legislation more effectively and to have meaningful sentences applied to firearms crimes, before demanding change?


The license holders want to work with NZ police, but the misleading statements from people that are seen to represent the nz police such as Mr cahill are a constant source of frustration (yes I am aware that he is not an active member of nz police in his role as police association president).


Please question some of the statements that are being made on this subject, and continue to think critically. Firearms crime in this country is thankfully very low and has been declining for quite some time, despite what you have been told and quoted in this article.


For further infromation to provide balance on the subject, the website 'kiwigunblog' is a source of OIA requests that have been carried out on this subject.


Thanks for your time,

[gonetropo]

bloody well said !

[timattalon]

I think Cahills use of the term "Hidden Arsenal" clearly shows his intention and perception on firearms. I dont have an "Arsenal" I have a small collection.

I will also email the herald and Stuart NAsh about the misdirection of the article and Cahills clear acceptance of being able to make statements that are anything but the truth. If they can only achieve 5% accuracy in recording of crime, how in hells name do they expect a register to be any use to them. Even if the made a 200% or even a 1000 percent (ten fold) improvement in accuracy, it would still be unreliable for any practical use.

[gonetropo]

I've just got back from tonights meeting in ChCh. Thought it was a pretty decent meeting, Mike spoke well, appeared to be honestly trying to do something positive, and had a sense of humour. After all the scaremongering from various people and groups, I was quite surprised at how well it went. There were a number of very good points put forward by some eloquent speakers, and they were listened to. We can only hope, but it looks like Mike may be in it for the long haul. And he said on a number of occasions " the Arms Act is not changing" However on a number of occasions he also said "they" are in the process of updating/writing policy, so the devil will be in the detail.

well he did chuckle when i said if his kids took up firearms they would never be able to afford drugs

[rupert]

Went to the Christchurch meeting. It was in a small room with chairs for about 30. But the audience was much bigger than the room and extended around the corner and out of the entrance. I was near the back of the large standing crowd. Could hear about 20% of what was said. Don't know about all of the tinnitus/deaf as a post affected hunters there. Obviously, there was expectation of a very few turning up. The most surprising thing was that the room for the meeting was over a pub: made a bit of a joke of the guns and alcohol don't mix element of the rules that we follow.

[muzr257]

Went to the Timaru meeting last night - approx. 45-50 attended. Meeting went well. Thought that Mike had the right attitude and seemed personable. Last questioned asked, by me, was "what is his realistic timeframe going to be to implement the changes" 12-24 months was the answer.
"consistencey" was the biggest issue raised.

[marky123]

I think Cahills use of the term "Hidden Arsenal" clearly shows his intention and perception on firearms. I dont have an "Arsenal" I have a small collection.

I will also email the herald and Stuart NAsh about the misdirection of the article and Cahills clear acceptance of being able to make statements that are anything but the truth. If they can only achieve 5% accuracy in recording of crime, how in hells name do they expect a register to be any use to them. Even if the made a 200% or even a 1000 percent (ten fold) improvement in accuracy, it would still be unreliable for any practical use.

Countries have arsenals.

[Beavis]

His stats are just straight up fake. He says half a million guns have been imported in 10 years when it is literally half that.

[striker]

Hamilton meeting was very close to 100 people