The arms code is a police document to assist them in administering the arms act. I can't see any good out of any organisation making up their own version and circulating it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cordite
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The arms code is a police document to assist them in administering the arms act. I can't see any good out of any organisation making up their own version and circulating it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cordite
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Ha, doubtful at best.Quote:
Originally Posted by muzza
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@SasquatchQuote:
Originally Posted by Sasquatch
Sorry, no, I was making a suggestion, not reporting on something being done by COLFO.
@Feral
I think the point of my suggestion is to take up police's admission that there are police "training issues" in matters relating to the Arms Act. It is well within COLFOs ability to publish an authoritative plain explanation of the Arms Act, what it says... and what it does not say, with FAQs and practical examples. And have the booklet endorsed by a couple of barristers. Every AO and Application Assessor would get hold of a copy, I guarantee you.
I'd be happy to illustrate it with some line drawings, a bit better than the one below...
Attachment 89120
(-:
Clarity of communication and quality of training were two topics discussed at the Palmerston North firearms discussion. Commonality and quality of AO training was seen by the 12 or so people who attended as being necessary to avoid the different interpretations of legislation. Ie the Police needs to be accurate and within the law. The communication bit was in relation to things like the Arms Code using the right language (must, should, may etc) to take away any ambiguity and the need for differing interpretations.
An example of this was Mike McIlraith discussing the limits of unattended vs attended when leaving a firearm in a vehicle (say at a gas station during a journey). Like everything though it would end up being tested in a court of law.
Had the Rotorua meeting today, I didnt count but there but someone mentioned there was 32 of us there.
Ill go in to a bit more detail in a bit
shit on it -Im working afternoon shift when the grey meeting is on otherwise would have trundled along and lent an ear lug.
That being said,I (as others) would be interested in how that discussion panned out.....thanks in advance
Quote:
Originally Posted by striker
Heres the photos of the minutes from the Auckland meeting. 25 people turned up. Out of 1 million residents or so and how ever many people are licensed.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...8c7cc9a052.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...cdfc9e8e47.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...8b1093663b.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...e039dc3a2e.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...c1d9df58e4.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...df9aa68329.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...74fb6df12b.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...0556d7e4c1.jpg
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https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...0d154d8e9d.jpg
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The Christchurch meeting is scheduled for Tuesday 19th June at 4:30-6pm at the ChCh RSA, 74 Armagh st.
see you there !Quote:
Originally Posted by outdoorlad
There is a few of us going to the Greymouth one on Monday.Quote:
Originally Posted by gonetropo
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https://kiwigunblog.wordpress.com/20...t-with-police/
new arms code is delayed.
We've talked about this previously, problem is the fine line on giving legal advice vs helping to understand what the Arms Act requires of you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sasquatch
Also, @Beavis has joined us at FOUNZ, so there's 2 of us lurking around if you have any related questions or comments for us.
Why wouldnt the XO of Pistol NZ go to one of these?
"We addressed the elephant in the room. How were we to take their discussion of ‘communication and transparency’ seriously when they flat refused to say what they had asked the Police Minister for when updating the Arms Act.
McIlraith dismissed the room’s concern here with a simple “Nope”. This would not be discussed."
Does this have anything to do with the delayed Arms Code perhaps?
It was interesting, seats for 10 people I think.Quote:
Originally Posted by A330driver
a few people brought up ideas of required alliances to clubs and learner licences with stand down periods.
permitting and lack of consistency in regards to permitting and security to the law
lack of correct and timely communication and notification of these events
Basically no idea how the system thats coming is actually going to function including choke points of applicant number vs trainers venues and time frames
He had quite a disregard and distaste for ( incorrect information and so called lies) from social media such as KGB and Founz. He didnt appreciate the dig at the tendencies and commonality of the nz police and nz police ass with there media efforts.
admitted the police not truly knowing firearms crime stats etc, wouldn't or couldn't be drawn in to producing numbers or any really meaning full data
Including other than being 20 years behind other government departments in technology and capability, but but running at a yearly deficient of over $5mil
so over all, putting in place solutions to a perceived problem that they have been told to fix
It is all well and good being critical of material posted by KBG and FOUNZ, but at least he/they could give some answers or information to counter what we may say. To date, many OIA requests go without a response well beyond the deadline, and are missing anything useful that could give an answer. A lot of data is poorly compiled or not recorded. Their idea of transparency is rubbish as long as they refuse to make public their submission to the last select committee, or their breifing to the incoming police minister.
Went last night , all the above same answers, apparently the arms act is not being changed at all, as to the deficient,The licensing system is there for the benefit of society, not the benefit of the holder, so a large proportion of the cost should be covered by the tax payer , not the applicant.Quote:
Originally Posted by striker
That's how I feel too. They claim in their report to the minister that changes need to be made to the arms act for the benefit of society then claim that FAL holders should cover the entire cost of administering these laws as they're the service users!Quote:
Originally Posted by Taff
Zero logic to be found.
Mate....thanks for the summation and reply......sounds like its the standard cluster fuck we’ve been in for years.Seriously,there are no surprises here,as others have posted,it cant be fair or transparent if your going to hide some of the chess pieces....
Quote:
Originally Posted by striker
What withholding of the Police's submission details achieves is to circumvent FAL holders' ability to approach members of parliament and counter with some common sense.
In other words, it is accepted fact that MPs listen to FAL holders.
So we don't have NZ Police's submissions. Oh hey, safe to just do a cut and paste from NZP's previous submissions, no? (-:
If I may add a force multiplier: keep it up with keeping the language and tone polite, especially when it gets difficult to do so.
who is going to the christchurch one tuesday ?
Just driving to Greymouth for the west coast meeting now.
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The phrase "flogging a dead horse" comes to mind.Quote:
Originally Posted by muzza
If you expect the NZ Police to "muzzle" the Police Association you are going to be in for a long and fruitless wait...
Try to understand what the 2 organizations are there for, and develop (realistic and workable) strategies for dealing with them...
Basically the association say what the police themselves cannot be seen to say.Quote:
Originally Posted by ebf
My take on it is at least they are making an effort by engaging with the user groups.
Our meeting had 19 attend. I would say the same old stuff was covered and imo I left thinking at least one person in the police wants to get things right for all involved.
It may take a while but I see things for endorsed firearms users improving regarding timings and paperwork.
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You may be right, however they will continue to increase the number of reasons they use to refuse the applications, which is the REAL issue.Quote:
Originally Posted by R93
Personally I'd rather an approved application that takes 3 months than a declined one that takes 24 hours, not saying they're direct trade offs, just that the real issues are not being addressed.
Does COLFO actually do anything?
Just about to renew some subs for the year, and at present they are not getting a cent.....
Do you read their news letters/follow their facebook page?Quote:
Originally Posted by Beaker
That's the best way to see what they're up to. Up to you to decide if that's something you want to financially support or not.
This is their latest news letter: Colfo News Issue - 3 2018
All COLFO news: News
I stopped a long time ago. Put money towards R lincoln instead.
They have a seat at the FCAF table, and have the ear of politicians more than any other group. http://www.police.govt.nz/about-us/p...advisory-forumQuote:
Originally Posted by Beaker
Take a look at the bullet points on that page as to why certain organisations are invited to represent us.
Membership of the Forum comprises both Police employees and non-Police employees. The non-Police members were selected for their:
broad skills, knowledge and understanding of firearms and issues/legislation relating to firearms
relevant practical experience and networks within the firearms community
ability to represent a diversity of perspectives within the firearms community
personal attributes and ability to work constructively with, and make a contribution to the Forum
being a representative of an incorporated group (who can represent the views of the group rather than their individual view).
While FOUNZ, KGB and NSA are more active in the blogging and social media environment (and they do great work), I imagine Police see them as hostile parties, so they don't get a seat at the table.
They're all fighting the same fight, they just go about it in different, complementary ways.
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According to police, we (FOUNZ) are "activists".
Attachment 89655
Aussie when they had to hand them in. Hope it never happens...
Fuck that is just wrong.
Who do you recommend supporting instead and how?Quote:
Originally Posted by muzza
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Fair enough, personally I like to support a few different organisations, with time and / or money, locally and nationally. I think it's important.Quote:
Originally Posted by muzza
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was in excess of 100 turn up at the christchurch meeting tonight
That's pretty cool. It's almost as if word has finally got around... That would be the biggest so far?Quote:
Originally Posted by gonetropo
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