Thread: Firearms Registry Consultation Open

@Ranger 888 - I spent a fair bit of time and my entire lunch break on Google today. Hence why I asked for help.

https://www.odt.co.nz/news/national/...n-police-force

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/cri...l-mob-gangster

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/auckla...6AEYGHRDDXNWY/

All examples of the weakest link in the chain - those very people entrusted to keep shit safe and secure.

So where do we find the definition of what is a major part? No barrels have serial numbers these days, so if you have a spare tube or two that are a generic part what gives with those? Where does one find the specifics on entering info - can't see anything about the 'how' of doing it apart from the comments above that you can enter it online or via hardcopy. It would seem that unless you have one or two thing it's going to be hugely easier for the licence holder to document on paper and take in a ream or two and plonk down on the arms officer's desk... It is going to be interesting to see how Police handle this as I cannot see them having enough resources to deal with it effectively given the current fiasco with licence renewals. Ammo being added to the registry is an interesting one as well, are we going to have to account for expenditure? Manufacture of ammo (reloading)? As others have stated, firearms already marked with a legal number from the manufacturer that isn't in english or arabic characters - what happens there and who pays to have the firearms re-marked lawfully? No point remarking a few thousand firearms as A1. I've seen recently firearms marked with cyrillic characters, turkish, jewish (yiddish), siamese, japanese, chinese, and a couple I have no idea what they were.

The further down this rabbit hole we get, the less competent and appearing to be 'in touch' with the day to day practicalities, that the powers that be appear to get - I just get the feeling that they think everyone is a deer, bunny and duck hunter with 3 firearms in a rack in their bedroom cupboard.

Originally Posted by No.3

So where do we find the definition of what is a major part? No barrels have serial numbers these days, so if you have a spare tube or two that are a generic part what gives with those? Where does one find the specifics on entering info - can't see anything about the 'how' of doing it apart from the comments above that you can enter it online or via hardcopy. It would seem that unless you have one or two thing it's going to be hugely easier for the licence holder to document on paper and take in a ream or two and plonk down on the arms officer's desk... It is going to be interesting to see how Police handle this as I cannot see them having enough resources to deal with it effectively given the current fiasco with licence renewals. Ammo being added to the registry is an interesting one as well, are we going to have to account for expenditure? Manufacture of ammo (reloading)? As others have stated, firearms already marked with a legal number from the manufacturer that isn't in english or arabic characters - what happens there and who pays to have the firearms re-marked lawfully? No point remarking a few thousand firearms as A1. I've seen recently firearms marked with cyrillic characters, turkish, jewish (yiddish), siamese, japanese, chinese, and a couple I have no idea what they were.

The further down this rabbit hole we get, the less competent and appearing to be 'in touch' with the day to day practicalities, that the powers that be appear to get - I just get the feeling that they think everyone is a deer, bunny and duck hunter with 3 firearms in a rack in their bedroom cupboard.

I have been informed that Rotorua Police are advertising for a full time fal screener/interviewer/whatever, with a salary of about $70k. It was suggested I could apply, but Nah. A guy I know who had a similar position reckoned he spent his days interviewing/inspecting firearms related items, then half his evening entering the info onto their database.

Originally Posted by No.3

So where do we find the definition of what is a major part?

Page 37
major firearm parts [the action (frame, receiver or upper and lower receiver) of a firearm, the
frame of a pistol, and a calibre conversion component or kit of a pistol

It was defined in one of the recent law changes, pretty sure it was the same definition.

Just read the job description - "experience with firearms may be an advantage but is not necessary".

Shows how much they value and believe in their rhetoric when they don't even think experience with firearms is a pre-requisite. And they likely won't get many applicants at a starting rate of 62,670 (roughly $30/hour) when you are having to use your own vehicle...

First thing I spotted:

Initially, and every three years, the system’s design, implementation and service management complete the Police Certification and Accreditation process, which is directed from Government through the NZ Information Security Manual and the Protective Security Requirements. Accreditation – or formal approval to operate – is provided by the Police Director of Assurance on successfully passing the certification process.

3 years is a long time to renew C&A's. A typical IT system would be 2 years. A sensitive system like this should be done annually (i.e once a year).

Also you guys want to see something funny... use this tool: https://www.checktls.com/TestReceiver . In the email target put police.govt.nz (this doesn't do anything bad, this is a free public tool to help validate email security).

You'll see a report generated that shows that the NZ Police email system uses self signed certificates. Why is this bad? Well it's kind of like making your own drivers license. The certificate is part of the encryption process for communications between email servers. When another system tries to send an email to NZ Police, if it requires strict TLS compliance (which is not uncommon) it will see the self signed certificate and decide to fall back to clear text (unencrypted). It also means an attacker could potentially spoof (fake) being a NZ Police emails server.

This also means it is likely email flowing out from NZ Police has the same issue.

tldr version- NZ Police have a poorly setup and potentially insecure email system. Currently, as in right now, as in the same time they want you to trust them to build a secure registry (which incidentally would like use this email system).

To put this in perspective, to fix this would require the installation of a certificate which would cost ~$11.25 on each server (there are two) and would take less than an hours work.

Also did you guys spot this:

Police understands that concerns have been expressed about the privacy, security and safety risks associated with multiple agencies accessing the Firearms Registry.

I haven't seen anything about other agencies accessing the firearms register? I wonder who this is or why?

I have just completed the on line submission. I added comments and suggestions to every question. In short, I disagreed with everything on the basis that the registry would provide no tangible benefit to Police or the wider society in New Zealand. I suggested that Police should trust fit and proper firearms license holders, their clubs, ranges, executors, administrators and others with powers of attorney over their estates, to act appropriately and in accordance with the law. And Police should redirect their efforts and their budget toward dispossessing gang members, their associates and other non firearms license holders of the firearms that are in their possession.

The underlying tone of my submission was to abandon the registry as it is unnecessarily bureaucratic and will be insecure, will compromise licensed firearms owners, their families and their legitimately held firearms and will ultimately fail and be abandoned.

Regardless, I believe that the registry will go ahead and only time will enable Police to see that I am correct.

Interesting tool, Vulcan.

Waikato Firearms Office 89%


Another govt dept that has suffered severe attack 93%


A commercial system where everyone assumes you sell your data in exchange for free email 97%


A system that prides itself on security (limited service but free) 100%

Originally Posted by Rushy

I have just completed the on line submission. I added comments and suggestions to every question. In short, I disagreed with everything on the basis that the registry would provide no tangible benefit to Police or the wider society in New Zealand. I suggested that Police should trust fit and proper firearms license holders, their clubs, ranges, executors, administrators and others with powers of attorney over their estates, to act appropriately and in accordance with the law. And Police should redirect their efforts and their budget toward dispossessing gang members, their associates and other non firearms license holders of the firearms that are in their possession.

The underlying tone of my submission was to abandon the registry as it is unnecessarily bureaucratic and will be insecure, will compromise licensed firearms owners, their families and their legitimately held firearms and will ultimately fail and be abandoned.

Regardless, I believe that the registry will go ahead and only time will enable Police to see that I am correct.

The registry has to go ahead by law. The consultation has nothing to do with that aspect, as is explained on the webpage
The scope of the consultation includes:
the specified arms items and the details of those items to be recorded in the Firearms Registry.
the obligations of licence holders and those in possession of specified arms items to provide information to Police for inclusion in the Firearms Registry.
associated provisions that support these changes, including a final date by which licence holders must have registered all their specified arms items.
Out of scope
The consultation does not cover establishment of the Registry, access to the Registry by other Agencies, or offences related to the Registry, all of which are already set out in the Act.

Originally Posted by vulcannz

I haven't seen anything about other agencies accessing the firearms register? I wonder who this is or why?

This has been around since before the first round of submissions on the new - at that stage proposed - laws several years ago.
If I recall correctly, they did drop one govt agency from the original list.

Originally Posted by vulcannz

Also you guys want to see something funny... use this tool: https://www.checktls.com/TestReceiver . In the email target put police.govt.nz (this doesn't do anything bad, this is a free public tool to help validate email security).

You'll see a report generated that shows that the NZ Police email system uses self signed certificates. Why is this bad? Well it's kind of like making your own drivers license. The certificate is part of the encryption process for communications between email servers. When another system tries to send an email to NZ Police, if it requires strict TLS compliance (which is not uncommon) it will see the self signed certificate and decide to fall back to clear text (unencrypted). It also means an attacker could potentially spoof (fake) being a NZ Police emails server.

This also means it is likely email flowing out from NZ Police has the same issue.

tldr version- NZ Police have a poorly setup and potentially insecure email system. Currently, as in right now, as in the same time they want you to trust them to build a secure registry (which incidentally would like use this email system).

To put this in perspective, to fix this would require the installation of a certificate which would cost ~$11.25 on each server (there are two) and would take less than an hours work.

Also did you guys spot this:


I haven't seen anything about other agencies accessing the firearms register? I wonder who this is or why?

Customs, MFAT and DoC will have access

Why do DOC & Mfat need access to it?

And customs... I don't see why customs needs to know about my firearms when I only own firearms purchased in NZ, and I don't import parts?