Firearms Safety Authority: Firearms Data & Public Information

A quick visit to the Firearms Safety Authority website provides easy access to: Firearms Data & Public Information - Firearms Public Dashboard August 2024 PDF, which illustrates:

- Active Individual Firearms Licence Holders by Police District 231,874
- Firearms Licence Holders Registered 56,032
- That is only 24% of Active Individual Firearms Licence Holders

So the questions:

1: What's holding you back from registering?
2: Why should the Firearms Registry be "Under review," when statistically 76% of Active Individual Firearms Licence Holders are NOT even registered yet, which means statistically there is no accurate database on which to draw any conclusions as to whether the register is working or not?

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Originally Posted by Hugh Shields

Why should the Firearms Registry be "Under review," when statistically 76% of Active Individual Firearms Licence Holders are NOT even registered yet, which means statistically there is no accurate database on which to draw any conclusions as to whether the register is working or not?

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Pretty sure that's not how statistical samples work. Regardless, why would total registration be a prerequisite to review the registry? In the words of her toothiness, "I reject the premise of your question".

I think that may be the point. 3/4 of the firearms licence holders haven't registered.

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Originally Posted by Hugh Shields

A quick visit to the Firearms Safety Authority website provides easy access to: Firearms Data & Public Information - Firearms Public Dashboard August 2024 PDF, which illustrates:

- Active Individual Firearms Licence Holders by Police District 231,874
- Firearms Licence Holders Registered 56,032
- That is only 24% of Active Individual Firearms Licence Holders

So the questions:

1: What's holding you back from registering?
2: Why should the Firearms Registry be "Under review," when statistically 76% of Active Individual Firearms Licence Holders are NOT even registered yet, which means statistically there is no accurate database on which to draw any conclusions as to whether the register is working or not?

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I suspectthat the answer to your first question will revolve around a great deal of mistrust, which thereby reinforces the reason and application of the review. Rather that your questions, pehaps the review should consider
3: Why is it that after 15 months that ONLY 24% of licensed firearms owners have signed up? If it was a good idea surely they would sign up faster......
4: How many of those were 'forced' to sign up as they had no choice (renewal of license due, or new license applications or endorsement holders on 12month renewals)
5: And with this level of distrust and lack of support how will it ever be effective or are the Police being given a sieve to carry water...

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Originally Posted by timattalon

I suspectthat the answer to your first question will revolve around a great deal of mistrust, which thereby reinforces the reason and application of the review. Rather that your questions, pehaps the review should consider
3: Why is it that after 15 months that ONLY 24% of licensed firearms owners have signed up? If it was a good idea surely they would sign up faster......
4: How many of those were 'forced' to sign up as they had no choice (renewal of license due, or new license applications or endorsement holders on 12month renewals)
5: And with this level of distrust and lack of support how will it ever be effective or are the Police being given a sieve to carry water...

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In all fairness, I think the Police ASKED for the water carrying sieve.

I think the Firearms Safety Authority (The Police and whichever Political party was in power at the time the decision was made) made a fundamental mistake in allowing five years in which to register. In five years will be three different political structures, all of whom can tamper with the registry and Firearms Act.

Five years also plays into the hands of Registered Firearms users who;

- Don't want to be the first Guinea pig?
- Procrastinate until the "Last possible moment!"
- Feel "Wronged" or "Victimised!"
- Are Straw Byers who still have five years to keep trading...

What would have been smarter would have been to allow SIX MONTHS to register, which would have prevent the current cluster of a review.

How would you feel if the Firearms Safety Authority and Police implemented a new Registration date of 31 March 2025?

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Originally Posted by Hugh Shields

How would you feel if the Firearms Safety Authority and Police implemented a new Registration date of 31 March 2025?

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I feel that I hope they confiscate your guns first.

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Originally Posted by Hugh Shields

I think the Firearms Safety Authority (The Police and whichever Political party was in power at the time the decision was made) made a fundamental mistake in allowing five years in which to register. In five years will be three different political structures, all of whom can tamper with the registry and Firearms Act.

Five years also plays into the hands of Registered Firearms users who;

- Don't want to be the first Guinea pig?
- Procrastinate until the "Last possible moment!"
- Feel "Wronged" or "Victimised!"
- Are Straw Byers who still have five years to keep trading...

What would have been smarter would have been to allow SIX MONTHS to register, which would have prevent the current cluster of a review.

How would you feel if the Firearms Safety Authority and Police implemented a new Registration date of 31 March 2025?

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I'm one of those procrastinators simply because A: I have no need to register for a few years and B:Any system that was so rushed into service was bound to be full of mistakes.

I do believe that there is a need for the register but just didn't feel the need to volunteer to be one of the first lab rats.

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Originally Posted by Hugh Shields

I think the Firearms Safety Authority (The Police and whichever Political party was in power at the time the decision was made) made a fundamental mistake in allowing five years in which to register. In five years will be three different political structures, all of whom can tamper with the registry and Firearms Act.

Five years also plays into the hands of Registered Firearms users who;

- Don't want to be the first Guinea pig?
- Procrastinate until the "Last possible moment!"
- Feel "Wronged" or "Victimised!"
- Are Straw Byers who still have five years to keep trading...

What would have been smarter would have been to allow SIX MONTHS to register, which would have prevent the current cluster of a review.

How would you feel if the Firearms Safety Authority and Police implemented a new Registration date of 31 March 2025?

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Straw buyers won't potentially be affected by the registry until either a firearm turns up somewhere it shouldn't be and it hasn't had the serial numbers scrubbed or they come up for a check or review due to some other reason. There is currently no physical checking on registered items that I'm aware of as it would be a shocking workload...

Not enough resources to achieve registration in a shorter time frame, would likely collapse the system!

As far as why not, well I haven't had a triggering event and it's likely going to be a multiple phone call pain in my arse scenario. When I've got a lot more spare time I'll look into it but while I've got bigger problems they will take priority.

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Originally Posted by Fatberg

I feel that I hope they confiscate your guns first.

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Ad Hominem Rules!

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Originally Posted by Hugh Shields

Ad Hominem Rules!

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Except that registration has always been a precursor for confiscation.

Of course, I'm certain that New Zealand will be the exception to the pattern.

Like a Tui, anyone?

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Originally Posted by Hugh Shields

A quick visit to the Firearms Safety Authority website provides easy access to: Firearms Data & Public Information - Firearms Public Dashboard August 2024 PDF, which illustrates:

- Active Individual Firearms Licence Holders by Police District 231,874
- Firearms Licence Holders Registered 56,032
- That is only 24% of Active Individual Firearms Licence Holders

So the questions:

1: What's holding you back from registering?

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I am not registering before I have to because I distrust and dislike the registry and registration.
I do not believe that registry data can and will be kept safe - look at the drivers license database breaches for example.
Registry data can and will be come a shopping list for criminals - where the guns are.

The system is too new to have its bugs identified and fixed. I don't want to be a beta tester for a system I do not trust.


I am not registering before I have to because I do not believe the registry will achieve the aims for which it was proposed.
Illegal possession and use of firearms will not be stopped by the registry.

I have structured my affairs so that I will not have to register until the very last moment.
I renewed my FAL early and brought sufficient ammunition to last.

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Originally Posted by Hugh Shields

How would you feel if the Firearms Safety Authority and Police implemented a new Registration date of 31 March 2025?

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I would be even more annoyed and angry with the system if that change were to be made.

I was promised 5 years and will wait for almost all of that time.

The system wouldn't be able to cope with a influx of registrations if the period was shorted to March 2025.

Only a fool would suggest that change.

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Originally Posted by Cyclops

I am not registering before I have to because I distrust and dislike the registry and registration.
I do not believe that registry data can and will be kept safe - look at the drivers license database breaches for example.
Registry data can and will be come a shopping list for criminals - where the guns are.

The system is too new to have its bugs identified and fixed. I don't want to be a beta tester for a system I do not trust.


I am not registering before I have to because I do not believe the registry will achieve the aims for which it was proposed.
Illegal possession and use of firearms will not be stopped by the registry.

I have structured my affairs so that I will not have to register until the very last moment.
I renewed my FAL early and brought sufficient ammunition to last.

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Thank you @Cyclops for taking the time to write a detailed response. I think there are many firearms owners who share your concerns. The "Last minute," mindset is well entrenched in NZ society, and also in my own life practices.

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Originally Posted by Hugh Shields

I think the Firearms Safety Authority (The Police and whichever Political party was in power at the time the decision was made) made a fundamental mistake in allowing five years in which to register. In five years will be three different political structures, all of whom can tamper with the registry and Firearms Act.

Five years also plays into the hands of Registered Firearms users who;

- Don't want to be the first Guinea pig?
- Procrastinate until the "Last possible moment!"
- Feel "Wronged" or "Victimised!"
- Are Straw Byers who still have five years to keep trading...

What would have been smarter would have been to allow SIX MONTHS to register, which would have prevent the current cluster of a review.

How would you feel if the Firearms Safety Authority and Police implemented a new Registration date of 31 March 2025?

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Do you honestly think their capable of handling the intake over a shorter period, some of the persons on reception seem to be struggling with a five year period. Did a change of ownership this morning, the registration person was informing me to make sure the buyer used the right procedure to transfer the firearm to his license, not to just register it. Told him I've done my bit, what the buyer does is out of my jurisdiction, was told if not done correctly will show the same firearm registered to 2 license holders.

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Originally Posted by tetawa

Told him I've done my bit, what the buyer does is out of my jurisdiction, was told if not done correctly will show the same firearm registered to 2 license holders.

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You have done your bit - and indeed - it is not your problem. IF their system cannot handle it, their problem, not yours.

As to not registering until the last minute? There is absolutely nothing to be gained by registering early, other than grief and pain in the neck. What is the benefit?

In my case I have a couple of guns to dispose of - meantime they stay in the safe - they may be eventually cut up - so why register (and they are oddball mo-name guns) and then have the faff of ttelling them they are destroyed, which I will be penalised if I forget?.......work for no benefit

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Originally Posted by Hugh Shields

So the questions:

1: What's holding you back from registering?
2: Why should the Firearms Registry be "Under review," when statistically 76% of Active Individual Firearms Licence Holders are NOT even registered yet, which means statistically there is no accurate database on which to draw any conclusions as to whether the register is working or not?

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1.My FAL was renewed a month before the register came into being....I am not legally obliged to register my firearms until 2028. I dont have any need to purchase any more firearms as my needs are covered by what I already own and I have enough ammunition and components to see me out until I have to register. I am a law abiding firearms owner and user and will remain that way. I have listened to politicians for most of my 70 yrs on this planet and cant help being cynical about what they promise or introduce to make my life better, invariably it seems to erode freedoms in the guise of "Its good for society'.
I will not register until I am required to and that follows one of my lifestyle principals of not buying any new product until it proves to be effective and lives up to its advertised purpose. Nothing I have seen or read indicates to me that the register will reduce crime or firearms offences.

Those charged with enforcing the firearms provisions of ownership in NZ have traditionally 'dropped the ball' when it came to the issuing and enforcement of FAL's and legislation which has somewhat eroded my confidence in their ability to carry out the new legislation and fulfill its purpose of reducing firearms crime and making NZ safer.

2. As far as the second question you asked......I note that from the Police statistics on firearms crimes, the numbers of offences have continued to rise over the past 3 years and have shown no signs of lessening, despite the introduction of new legislation ( which is, in my view) directed at lawful owners who have met the standard of being 'Fit and Proper'. I dont need statistical data on that group of people to show me that the register is going to lessen firearms crime as they already abide by the law. ( Apart from the straw buyers who are a very very small minority)

My question back at you is simply this.......How is the register going to reduce firearms crimes that are committed by those who refuse to obey the law...
Hopefully you will come up with something that will make me reconsider my views....

Thank you @Allgood for your well thought out, well written post.
Earlier today I posted a YouTube video on; Questions over Nicole McKee's firearms advice | Q+A 2024, which sparked a bit of conversation. The conversation (on the Forum) was humming along, before it was taken down because it was too, "Political."
you have raised some good points and I'm conscious that my response to you needs to be written in a non-political manner, on a subject which is very political....So I'm going to sleep on it and tomorrow try to use my best, most carefully considered, non-political thoughts to respond to you.
Thank you for engaging in the conversation.
"Good night Jim Bob. Good night Mary-Ellen."

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Originally Posted by Hugh Shields

Thank you @Allgood for your well thought out, well written post.
Earlier today I posted a YouTube video on; Questions over Nicole McKee's firearms advice | Q+A 2024, which sparked a bit of conversation. The conversation (on the Forum) was humming along, before it was taken down because it was too, "Political."
you have raised some good points and I'm conscious that my response to you needs to be written in a non-political manner, on a subject which is very political....So I'm going to sleep on it and tomorrow try to use my best, most carefully considered, non-political thoughts to respond to you.
Thank you for engaging in the conversation.
"Good night Jim Bob. Good night Mary-Ellen."

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Night John-Boy

That would be my contention as well 'Allgood'...none of the knuckle dragging crims are going to give a damn about firearm registrations and whoever has to legally maintain the register [and maintain the integrity of the register] will not be able to make an appreciable difference to any criminal activity...just throw good money on the bonfire...us LAW-ABIDING FAL holders will continue to maintain our lawful stance....

I have always maintained that the register is a nice to have...I am not against the register in principle but I am very opposed to the waste and cost of it at a time where the money could be used for far more important things....And trying to do it cheap will cost much more in the long run.

Things this country needs must outweigh the things we would like to have......The previous Govt seems to forget that every taxpayer is on a limitied income and must budget what they have against what they need.....thus the govt is on a limited income and demands on it also exceed what they have available to spend.

We need Healthcare, We need services like roads, water and electricity, We need education. We need Law enforcement and military (even if they are only used as disaster relief...)
We want Sports staduims, We want new flash brand new ferries (we need functioning ones - there is a difference of about a billion dollars apparently..)

The register definitley falls in the wants category and the $100m or so they expect to spend on it (probably more by the time it falls apart) That would pay for a lot of other things that we need more urgently - Teacher or medical personell training, or a new survey boat for the Navy or more police, or medical supplies / drugs. Or road maintenance....or so many many other things that will actually make a difference to peoples lives....

I will delay signing up to the register until I have to. I am just waiting for the first data breach, security fail whther it be unintetional or deliberate...the potential for damage to the clients already registered has the potentil to be devastating...

remember you can replace a firearm but you cannot undo the trauma of a crime like a home invasion....and if a list of who owns what gets out.....well I am scared to think of the damage that will happen.

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Originally Posted by Doghead

You have done your bit - and indeed - it is not your problem. IF their system cannot handle it, their problem, not yours.

As to not registering until the last minute? There is absolutely nothing to be gained by registering early, other than grief and pain in the neck. What is the benefit?

In my case I have a couple of guns to dispose of - meantime they stay in the safe - they may be eventually cut up - so why register (and they are oddball mo-name guns) and then have the faff of ttelling them they are destroyed, which I will be penalised if I forget?.......work for no benefit

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I haven’t registered yet, Sept next year I need to renew my licence, so that will be it.
I have half a dozen firearms held for the family of a dead man. Yes the police know I have them.
One 12 g has the barrel filled with concrete, can I chop it up or do I register it and sell it cheap.
I’ll have to check it’s not a purdy.

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Originally Posted by Maca49

I haven’t registered yet, Sept next year I need to renew my licence, so that will be it.
I have half a dozen firearms held for the family of a dead man. Yes the police know I have them.
One 12 g has the barrel filled with concrete, can I chop it up or do I register it and sell it cheap.
I’ll have to check it’s not a purdy.

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Id say it was purdy well buggered....Concrete is a bugger for causing rust....

Spoke with local gun shop owner, told me firearms sales are half of the usual and we know why.

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Originally Posted by Maca49

I haven’t registered yet, Sept next year I need to renew my licence, so that will be it.
I have half a dozen firearms held for the family of a dead man. Yes the police know I have them.
One 12 g has the barrel filled with concrete, can I chop it up or do I register it and sell it cheap.
I’ll have to check it’s not a purdy.

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The correct way is to hand it in at your local cop shop for disposal, best to call them first and arrange a time

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Originally Posted by Cordite

Spoke with local gun shop owner, told me firearms sales are half of the usual and we know why.

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There aren't many/any new guns I would consider buying. Old guns now that's a different story.

I register my vechiles,they can still be used in crimes,stolen,kill people or simply disappear. I register my dogs,they can still bite people,worry stock,be stolen never to be seen again or fall down a tomo never to be seen again. What makes you thing registering my guns will make YOU any safer than you are now???

Because they will know where they are, that's why, and that's the most nonsensical statement if you think about it

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Originally Posted by Micky Duck

I register my vechiles,they can still be used in crimes,stolen,kill people or simply disappear. I register my dogs,they can still bite people,worry stock,be stolen never to be seen again or fall down a tomo never to be seen again. What makes you thing registering my guns will make YOU any safer than you are now???

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It's not about logic or practicality, it is virtue signalling

There was a scene in Robocop where one of the execs talking about the ED209 or whatever the earlier model was says something like "Never mind whether it WORKED - we had spare parts for this thing for YEARS!"

The register is not there to do what it says it is there to do - the register is there to placate the worried libs who know fuck all about firearms and fear them

I transferred the last firearms I was holding back to their owners before we hit the road and I made the FSA put a note on my file that my rifles are not at our address but in our caravan while we travel so actually they have no clues where they are.

So about a quarter of the way through the five year period to register, about a quarter of firearms licence holders have registered their firearms. The math works so what am I missing?

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Originally Posted by Rushy

So about a quarter of the way through the five year period to register, about a quarter of firearms licence holders have registered their firearms. The math works so what am I missing?

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So… by year 4 all registrations should be done and dusted ?:yaeh am not durnk:

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Originally Posted by Finnwolf

So… by year 4 all registrations should be done and dusted ?:yaeh am not durnk:

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No. I paid attention during math. By the end of year four 80% should be done. Actually I really only went to school to eat my lunch but some of it stuck.

If it was a basic statistical modelling exercise that would work.

In this case, the model is altered and effected by several external factors such as license holders not renewing their licenses, new license holders, the randomness of triggering events, the fact that most renewals cluster around the 1991 introduction date of the 10 year licences and changes to the triggering event types all mean that there will be times when a lot of people are either going to register or are forced to and other times where there won't be so many.

I would think that there would be a bulge of registrations at around the time that ammo purchases become a triggering event, as an example.

I think there will be a HUGE rush to stockpile ammunition before that date to avoid it for a bit longer.

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Originally Posted by Micky Duck

I think there will be a HUGE rush to stockpile ammunition before that date to avoid it for a bit longer.

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I agree with MD.
Personally I have made sure that I won't be caught by ammunition purchase becoming a triggering event.