Thread: GCNZ, alpha carbines being lined up again.

By this logic should we ban double barrel shotguns? Imagine something like this getting into the wrong hands.


Or what about semi-auto 22s?


Or maybe we just accept that criminals will do criminal things and per-capita FAL holders are disproportionally law-abiding.

A stroeger coachgun. Being cut down n sawn off....now there is the work of a moron if ever I have seen it.they already short n handy and designed for short n light type job... Morons after concealment and intimidation factor with no idea at all. I almost pity the Muppet who fired one like that,you wouldn't hear a thing for hours and the recoil would be brutal. Muppets,complete Muppets.

I am going to play devils advocate here and it really pains me to do it in this case with GCNZ ......

I was surprised when I saw these available in shops as it was always my understanding that these were never approved for import here for the very reason GCNZ claims. BUt they seem to have become available AFTER the Gun laws were hastily (and poorly ) altered and changed a few years back.

The fact that we can now own Rimfires that were classed as MSSA/E Cat on a normal license is surely another example. (Note I am not saying they should be banned- but I am pretty sure those who wrote the law did not envisage them becoming legal through their ineptitude...)

Basically the law and regulations around this is flawed - as we know it's not the firearm that does the damage it's the idiot that decides to use it in breach of the laws. Attempting to control what is out there through legal sources does nothing to stop criminals being criminals, and when you have a massive pool of items already out in the wild who knows how long it will take to reel a sufficient number back in to make a serious dent in the crime stats.

Anything can be made to look menacing, I recall someone waving a kids BB gun pistol around a while back that still had the orange/red tip on it. I'm really unsure why NZ went down this track, as if you have a criminal bent and are doing crime one more line on your sheet is unlikely to make you think again regarding firearms - and if you are suddenly not fit and proper and consorting with the criminal element despite the firearms licensing checks again it's likely years down track before you are picked up with firearms offences unless you come up on notice for some other reason (assuming why you come up isn't because of something registered to you that still has the ID on it - be mint if it does but in my view unlikely). It's a bloody expensive convoluted and inefficient way of just trying to make firearms owners care more for their expensive toys - I would have thought it would have been more effective making all transfers go on paper and signed off by the local AO...

One wonder if the police did not initially authorise those wheel carbines to be imported, knowing very well that at some stage they would be ending in wrong hands and cut down ( or the other way around) and that all they had to do was track down who bought a bunch of them ,to then on sell to the wrong guys….

As soon as I saw those silly revolver things advertised, I knew what would happen. Why else would anyone want one?

Originally Posted by Waitati Hunter

As soon as I saw those silly revolver things advertised, I knew what would happen. Why else would anyone want one?

They are bloody good fun, and excellent for pigs and goats, a local blokes I know has one in 357 and only has one arm, and I tell you what, he loves the freedom it gives him to hunt as it can be used one handed on a rest.

I used to use mine in .22 mag for rabbits, nice and light, and very accurate for what they are, plus they are perfectly legal to own.

the aussies have them, wouldn’t want them to have more fun than us right ?

Originally Posted by Waitati Hunter

As soon as I saw those silly revolver things advertised, I knew what would happen. Why else would anyone want one?

Those bolt action things are silly too. With detachable magazines which criminals can modify easily to take lots of rounds, or just buy big ones, then chop either end off like in the police instructions in the mentioned document. Of course they are silly.
A good old 303 with a ten round mag, cut down as per police diagram would make a great gangster gun. Four more rounds than a revolver. And faster to reload.

Originally Posted by Waitati Hunter

As soon as I saw those silly revolver things advertised, I knew what would happen. Why else would anyone want one?

I don't think we should be focused on what other FAL holders get enjoyment from. If you give an inch they will take a mile with regards to banning "scary" firearms and more regulation. In fact they already have taken a mile partly because we failed to put up a unified front.

While I fully support the argument that any firearm could be cut down and made illegal, I admit that these alpha carbines are the only firearms I've ever seen where my very first thought was "it would be great fun to cut that down and have a blast".

they are clearly designed and made as a loop hole to accessing a pistol, no one would design a carbine rifle that ugly and as a coincidence that it cuts down to a perfect pistol.

Originally Posted by Yesmate

they are clearly designed and made as a loop hole to accessing a pistol, no one would design a carbine rifle that ugly and as a coincidence that it cuts down to a perfect pistol.

It's not a loophole. It looks and operates like a revolver (which gives it its appeal) but it is a rifle by every legal definition here in NZ.

I've seen people online saying it was "designed to be cut down"... Which is a bold claim that's severely lacking evidence. As far as anyone can tell, the manufacturer just gave a revolver a long barrel and a stock so that they could be sold to a wider market as rifles in countries with restrictive laws. I.e. they found a niche. They cannot control the intent of the buyers.

Since the UK banned pistols, people have been able to buy "pistols" with long barrels/faux suppressors and bars coming off the back of the pistol grips to meet the minimum length requirements to make them rifles. Technically would be very easy to chop them down too. Hasn't been a problem over there though. Shouldn't be here either.

Originally Posted by Yesmate

they are clearly designed and made as a loop hole to accessing a pistol, no one would design a carbine rifle that ugly and as a coincidence that it cuts down to a perfect pistol.

Yep definitely a loophole to get around recent firearm regulations.

They will be after 10/22's next because they are a semi auto and can be cut down.

This "Rifle" is not some sort of work around , it is merely a modern iteration of an 1850's design , there is nothing special about it and it was not all that well liked because of a tendency to chain fire or splatter the firer with hot gasses.