Thread: How to immobilise old fiream to create safe wall hanging

Hi all - I have a farmer friend who has inherited a number of old WW1 era 303s etc from an ill uncle. Our farmer would like to immobilise one rifle so the uncle can have it back in his house as a wall display - a memento. Can anyone advise exactly if this is legal, and how to safely and completely immobilise the old 303. Has to be zero risk of it being 'unwelded' etc. Some of the gunsmiths may have done this.. Yes would have to be removed from register if on it..

Knowledgeable advice appreciated. Thanks Mudz

ven if it was skeletonised etc there is no definition of deactivated under nz law.

Originally Posted by gonetropo

ven if it was skeletonised etc there is no definition of deactivated under nz law.

Part of the issue with this is that there have been arguments over when something is a "firearm" and when something isn't.

If the definition of a firearm is something that is capable of discharging a shot by means of the contained expansion blah blah blah - if it isn't capable of that and all of the components have been modified to not fit a firearm again is it still? Thats a bit beyond the scope of the original question, but the crux of it is that there is no mechanism in the Arms Act as it currently stands to render something inactive or no longer a firearm. What this means, is that it is rather difficult to do what is wanted (render a firearm useless to allow it do be displayed without contravening any laws).

If the deactivated firearm was stolen off the wall and then presented in a crime such as an armed robbery of a shop (purely intimidation), it's not somewhere I'd want to go as the law is currently written.

Originally Posted by No.3

If the deactivated firearm was stolen off the wall and then presented in a crime such as an armed robbery of a shop (purely intimidation), it's not somewhere I'd want to go as the law is currently written.

I think this is the crux of the matter.

Howabout a life sized high definition photo of the rifle. Not the same I know but it comes back to what @No.3 said, just because it can't be fired, does not mean it can't be used to intimidate.

Originally Posted by imaca

I think this is the crux of the matter.

Howabout a life sized high definition photo of the rifle. Not the same I know but it comes back to what @No.3 said, just because it can't be fired, does not mean it can't be used to intimidate.

Yet anybody can buy a cast alloy replica of various guns?

Originally Posted by No.3

Part of the issue with this is that there have been arguments over when something is a "firearm" and when something isn't.

If the definition of a firearm is something that is capable of discharging a shot by means of the contained expansion blah blah blah - if it isn't capable of that and all of the components have been modified to not fit a firearm again is it still? Thats a bit beyond the scope of the original question, but the crux of it is that there is no mechanism in the Arms Act as it currently stands to render something inactive or no longer a firearm. What this means, is that it is rather difficult to do what is wanted (render a firearm useless to allow it do be displayed without contravening any laws).

If the deactivated firearm was stolen off the wall and then presented in a crime such as an armed robbery of a shop (purely intimidation), it's not somewhere I'd want to go as the law is currently written.

The police would only accept it as a deactivated firearm if it was laser cut right through the middle. It’s no longer capable of reassembly etc. I was told this when enquiring about a trophy.

Originally Posted by omark

The police would only accept it as a deactivated firearm if it was laser cut right through the middle. It’s no longer capable of reassembly etc. I was told this when enquiring about a trophy.

That's the problem in a nutshell - anything is capable of reassembly it just has to be worth the cost. Everything made can be remade - the issue becomes practicality. Cutting something in half lengthways is not the most practical way to render something inert - the Lee Enfield armourer's or training sectionalised firearms are a good example. No way they would ever fire again without some major work but are still considered firearms.

From opinions I have heard the key safety things that need to be affected to render something inert include affecting the headspace and bolt lockup to prevent the thing being put into battery safely with a round chambered, the firing system altered to prevent a primer from being ignited and the barrel opened and plugged to prevent anything from being ejected out the end. Deal with those bits and what you have is no longer a firearm...

Even the Police didn't go down the track of laser cutting when they did their buyback and deactivating, they just bent them in a few places. Given enough time and someone with the right amount of enthusiasm even those could have been made to shoot again (although I would not be the first in the line to try them out haha).

Originally Posted by No.3

That's the problem in a nutshell - anything is capable of reassembly it just has to be worth the cost. Everything made can be remade - the issue becomes practicality. Cutting something in half lengthways is not the most practical way to render something inert - the Lee Enfield armourer's or training sectionalised firearms are a good example. No way they would ever fire again without some major work but are still considered firearms.

From opinions I have heard the key safety things that need to be affected to render something inert include affecting the headspace and bolt lockup to prevent the thing being put into battery safely with a round chambered, the firing system altered to prevent a primer from being ignited and the barrel opened and plugged to prevent anything from being ejected out the end. Deal with those bits and what you have is no longer a firearm...

Even the Police didn't go down the track of laser cutting when they did their buyback and deactivating, they just bent them in a few places. Given enough time and someone with the right amount of enthusiasm even those could have been made to shoot again (although I would not be the first in the line to try them out haha).

At some stage the deactivation reaches a level of effectiveness that anyone with the ability to un-deactivate it, will also have the ability to manufacture. In which scenario un-deactivation will be a waste of their time in the event that they are seeking to produce a working firearm.

Gunsmith to create a new action, that is not actually an action? i.e. solid slug the barrel gets threaded onto, and the bolt gets cut and welded to?
Would look correct but would be treated like a childs toy gun / airsoft / paintball gun, as far as requiring to comply under the Firearms legislation
The original action with it's associated serial number could be sold off, kept, or destroyed.

Best option is to buy an off the Denix or similar replica. Correct in that there is no leagal deactivation in NZ, once a gun, always a gun.

They can also get grumpy if you create something that in their opinion can be easily modified to function.

I'm going to do this to a rifle I inherited, it's beyond repair to a safe useable condition so this would be the best option for me as I may not have a FAL in years to come.

Plug & weld the breach and muzzle, open the action and lay a bead of weld across the trigger mechanism.

I'll eventually encase it in epoxy resin in the centre of a "River Table"

You could weld the end of barrel shut and then weld the bolt into the action?

You could always ask the firearms safety authority, this should be right up their alley.

Speaking to a chap I know who used to do this sort of thing in the NZDF, he said it can get pretty involved, but here is a few things you could do:
Shorten the firing pin,
weld the firing pin hole up,
Pin/weld the action so it can't be cocked,
drill a caliber sized hole at the commencement of rifling,
Plug the bore (tight fitting rod and welded)
remove the sear.

I guess it just depends on how far the cops and firearms safety authority want you to go.

No such thing as deactivation in New Zealand really. The definition of firearm in the Arms act is very broad and all encompassing. (b)(ii) basically negates any potential method of deactivation.


firearm—
(a) means anything from which any shot, bullet, missile, or other projectile can be discharged by force of explosive; and
(b) includes—
(i)anything that has been adapted so that it can be used to discharge a shot, bullet, missile, or other projectile by force of explosive; and
(ii)anything which is not for the time being capable of discharging any shot, bullet, missile, or other projectile but which, by its completion or the replacement of any component part or parts or the correction or repair of any defect or defects, would be a firearm within the meaning of paragraph (a) or subparagraph (i); and
(iii)anything (being a firearm within the meaning of paragraph (a) or subparagraph (i)) which is for the time being dismantled or partially dismantled; and
(iv)any specially dangerous airgun

You can destroy a firearm (Section 66A) but there is no interpretation of destruction provided within the act or regulations and the matter of destruction is only really dealt with in terms of obligations to notify the Police and registry.

What I would do is "destroy" the firearm by one or several of the methods described by others above. Notify the police and registry that as per the requirements Section 66A of the Arms Act you are notifying them you have destroyed a firearm (and also fulfill you registration requirements). The method with which you have "destroyed" it and state that you do not believe that the item now can be considered a "firearm" as per the interpretation provided within Section 2 of the Arms Act. You could state reasons why that you have permanently destroyed both the action, trigger, and barrel that you can not replace or repair a part to make it a firearm again. The problem being that anything is fixable (just often not within practical and financial reason) so they may disagree.

Sometimes the best way to play the game is simply do something, notify the Police as per your legal obligation and then just carry on with life and force them to come to a position on something.

Originally Posted by Makros

No such thing as deactivation in New Zealand really. ...
(ii)anything which is not for the time being capable of discharging any shot, bullet, missile, or other projectile but which, by its completion or the replacement of any component part or parts or the correction or repair of any defect or defects, would be a firearm within the meaning of paragraph (a) or subparagraph (i); and

Um... if I have a blank beautiful bit of <insert your favorite native [or non-native] wood that you turn into s stock, is that now a firearm? As I can complete it?

My god that is broad