Thread: Hunter convicted

Our justice system is broken.

Not even close.... that would require the majority of outcomes to be inappropriate, and all you lot are talking about is the headlines, statistical outliers, or your own personal experiences which are hardly statistically reliable and certainly not both sides of any story.

It's no surprise to me that public perspective is distorted, all you know is bad news and no one reports on what functions well. The reality is that on the whole we are well served by the system that we have.

Secondly the amount of ignorance about the role that the courts provide to the community is simply staggering. The lack of understanding of the function of the law, or the roles of the legal profession, let alone the legal requirements to consider issues more than just a victims perspective. Not only is that binding on Judges but profoundly in the interests of the rest of society and for a longer term view...

What is also staggering is the punitive/deterrent mindset of the public in this country. We have more in prison than we have ever had, we have the 2nd largest incarceration rate in the Western world, and the bleaters still can't quite work out that repeating stuff that isn't working is the absolute indication of madness...

There seems to be an underlying perverted idea that if the "justice system" was working then criminals would stop being criminals, hunters would not get shot by their mates, and cars wouldn't leave the road for the footpath with traumatic results. News flash, thats your fault - thats the peoples fault and it starts with individual and community attitudes. Attempting to lay that at the feet of the "justice system" is absolutely missing the point.

Its poor parenting, not caring for your neighbours, not supporting those who need it, not holding your mates and relatives to account for them being dicks, and sitting back and blaming the justice system for the failings.

Convenient but stupid....

Originally Posted by Sidney

Not even close.... that would require the majority of outcomes to be inappropriate, and all you lot are talking about is the headlines, statistical outliers, or your own personal experiences which are hardly statistically reliable and certainly not both sides of any story.

It's no surprise to me that public perspective is distorted, all you know is bad news and no one reports on what functions well. The reality is that on the whole we are well served by the system that we have. Very likely knowing the quality of media reporting in this country.....

Secondly the amount of ignorance about the role that the courts provide to the community is simply staggering. The lack of understanding of the function of the law, or the roles of the legal profession, let alone the legal requirements to consider issues more than just a victims perspective. Not only is that binding on Judges but profoundly in the interests of the rest of society and for a longer term view...

What is also staggering is the punitive/deterrent mindset of the public in this country. We have more in prison than we have ever had, we have the 2nd largest incarceration rate in the Western world, and the bleaters still can't quite work out that repeating stuff that isn't working is the absolute indication of madness...Disagree in that Yes it seems to defy logic, but they need to do the time for the crime. Not locking them away rewards them with their freedom thereby encouraging MORE of the offences rather than less. Police chases is another situation we hear of more now. Why? because these clowns know that if they drive like they will kill someone, then the cops wont chase them. Thus they drive like this knowing they can escape. If they were chased down EVERY time, and actually punished, they would start to learn that it is not worth running. By the logic of the "dont lock em up brigade", we can stop every police chase, simply by NOT chasing anyone who runs and we can all get away. second point- they are not Police pursuits. They are FLEEING DRIVERS!!!!.

There seems to be an underlying perverted idea that if the "justice system" was working then criminals would stop being criminals, hunters would not get shot by their mates, and cars wouldn't leave the road for the footpath with traumatic results. News flash, thats your fault - thats the peoples fault and it starts with individual and community attitudes. Attempting to lay that at the feet of the "justice system" is absolutely missing the point. I sort of agree here. It is not the justice systems fault that criminals behave like criminals, but it is the justice sytem at fault if it lets them get away with it, thereby encouraging and rewarding this behaviour.

Its poor parenting, not caring for your neighbours, not supporting those who need it, not holding your mates and relatives to account for them being dicks, and sitting back and blaming the justice system for the failings. Absolutely 100% SPOT ON. Those who choose to be criminals, those who choose to break the law are completely the ones at fault. And those that enable, encourage and reward must wear the blame as well. Bad parenting choices, lack of discipline, lack of boundaries and lack of consequences all contribute to this, but the blame remains with those who chose to commit crime.
Convenient but stupid....

In some of this statement I dont agree, but in others I do.

Personal responsibility seems to be a quality that is greatly lacking in our society. Where do people learn personal responsibilities, consequences and boundaries?

Originally Posted by Sidney

Not even close.... that would require the majority of outcomes to be inappropriate, and all you lot are talking about is the headlines, statistical outliers, or your own personal experiences which are hardly statistically reliable and certainly not both sides of any story.

It's no surprise to me that public perspective is distorted, all you know is bad news and no one reports on what functions well. The reality is that on the whole we are well served by the system that we have.

Secondly the amount of ignorance about the role that the courts provide to the community is simply staggering. The lack of understanding of the function of the law, or the roles of the legal profession, let alone the legal requirements to consider issues more than just a victims perspective. Not only is that binding on Judges but profoundly in the interests of the rest of society and for a longer term view...

What is also staggering is the punitive/deterrent mindset of the public in this country. We have more in prison than we have ever had, we have the 2nd largest incarceration rate in the Western world, and the bleaters still can't quite work out that repeating stuff that isn't working is the absolute indication of madness...

There seems to be an underlying perverted idea that if the "justice system" was working then criminals would stop being criminals, hunters would not get shot by their mates, and cars wouldn't leave the road for the footpath with traumatic results. News flash, thats your fault - thats the peoples fault and it starts with individual and community attitudes. Attempting to lay that at the feet of the "justice system" is absolutely missing the point.

Its poor parenting, not caring for your neighbours, not supporting those who need it, not holding your mates and relatives to account for them being dicks, and sitting back and blaming the justice system for the failings.

Convenient but stupid....

@Sidney

You maintain our justice system is not broken? Who, then, incarcerates all those people???

By your reasonable definition, if most incarcerations are inappropriate outcomes, the system is "broken".

I digress, wonder how a justice system would work with no custodial sentencing available. Hopefully more restitution / actual victim compensation, with the odd execution (or exile to Kapiti Island).

Originally Posted by Cordite

@Sidney

You maintain our justice system is not broken? Who, then, incarcerates all those people???

By your reasonable definition, if most incarcerations are inappropriate outcomes, the system is "broken".

I digress, wonder how a justice system would work with no custodial sentencing available. Hopefully more restitution / actual victim compensation, with the odd execution (or exile to Kapiti Island).

Cant do that Cordite, it impinges on the criminal rights. One things for sure, if we had no criminals, the income generated by them would stuff many peoples lives!

Originally Posted by Cordite

@Sidney

You maintain our justice system is not broken? Who, then, incarcerates all those people???

By your reasonable definition, if most incarcerations are inappropriate outcomes, the system is "broken".

I digress, wonder how a justice system would work with no custodial sentencing available. Hopefully more restitution / actual victim compensation, with the odd execution (or exile to Kapiti Island).

We cannot ship the to Kapiti.....I thought that was what New South Wales was for....

Originally Posted by Cordite

@Sidney

You maintain our justice system is not broken? Who, then, incarcerates all those people???

By your reasonable definition, if most incarcerations are inappropriate outcomes, the system is "broken".

I digress, wonder how a justice system would work with no custodial sentencing available. Hopefully more restitution / actual victim compensation, with the odd execution (or exile to Kapiti Island).

Just because there are flaws, doesn't mean its broken.. incarceration is a tool, but clearly it has been almost the only tool to mitigate the danger to the public and to penalise.

Rehabilitation is a joke when you group criminals together to educate each other how to be better criminals. So too is putting people who may not become habitual criminals or who may have committed some unintended act into a place where they can become something that they may never have otherwise.

That is stupidity and creates future harm for the rest of us.

Now none of this is simple stuff and logistically really difficult.... but I absolutely agree with you that the "making right" part of offending has been forgotten. To try and fix your cock ups is part of being a responsible person... why has society forgotten that....?

Of course sometimes victims can't face that, and it seems harsh to perpetuate their vulnerability in some sort of truth and reconciliation process, so that is not easy either...

I sometimes think that we have forgotten that conflict is a natural part of life, we have practiced conflict avoidance in preference and we are not well equipped to resolve life difficulties because we have not been trained to do so..

Facing up to errors is a part of it, but so to is facing up when we have been wronged... its all part of being responsible...