Thread: Im lost for words

Now it's got worse

Originally Posted by Jexla

I like how you think that by just joining the police you can change how the whole organization works, that's like saying if you want the country to change, become and politician and you can do it....

AS IF

You can, how do you think the current leaders started their careers? The current Police Commisioner started as a Constable and went through recruit college. John Key entered parliament in 2002 I believe. It's a bit gutless to think that you can't change it so won't try. Admitting you don't have the personal ability or qualities is different.

I have a few questions, luckily the man isn't dead, and a number of things were done very wrong in the lead up to this.
how many officers would normally deploy to a call out,
is it normal for an armed officer, (with a carbine or long rifle) to be directly involved in detaining the suspect, I can understand a pistol.
I would have thought, once suspect was cuffed and on ground, that all arms would then be safed, right away, is this the case, or standard practice is.

Could be between four and 20 at a guess.
Yes, every AOS member carries a long except a dog handler, and they've got a dog to control.
All the firearms are on safe until a second or two max before firing.

I believe part of the problem was they had crap slings, this has been remedied as a direct result of this incident.

Tussock I see that you've met a few idiot cops, sadly there are still a few about but they are certainly a very small minority. But you also cut the quote short, you have very little experience in Policing, their training and dealing with criminal element in NZ. If you're ever in Northland give me a shout and I'll take you out for a ride along and introduce you to all of the cops around, you'd probably change your general opinion, I imagine you'd be pretty interesting to have a beer with too.

As for following you on this thread winding all over the place, I'm over it, and my wife is sick of me sitting on the computer.

Originally Posted by Savage1

I believe part of the problem was they had crap slings, this has been remedied as a direct result of this incident.

I really hope that is the case!

Originally Posted by Jexla

I like how you think that by just joining the police you can change how the whole organization works, that's like saying if you want the country to change, become and politician and you can do it....

AS IF

Im guessing by that statement, you believe that nothing can be changed so why bother trying.
Forgive me but that is the most gutless thing I have ever heard. You cant change anything unless you put in the hard yard to make stuff change.

Saying I cant change it so I wont try, is just the cowards way out.

Im guessing by your tone of your comments that you are a worker that just what they are told and does nothing other than what you are told. Much like a robot.

Im guessing you have not found or even looked of an easier way to do stuff, or recommend a better way of doing things.

Also, how then are Politicians or leaders made if one doesn't become one. Do you think they are born into it as a birth right.

more fucktards were made idiots by bloody computers than ever dead men by a nz police rounds or has that escaped some of you???

Originally Posted by jim160

Im guessing by that statement, you believe that nothing can be changed so why bother trying.
Forgive me but that is the most gutless thing I have ever heard. You cant change anything unless you put in the hard yard to make stuff change.

Saying I cant change it so I wont try, is just the cowards way out.

Im guessing by your tone of your comments that you are a worker that just what they are told and does nothing other than what you are told. Much like a robot.

Im guessing you have not found or even looked of an easier way to do stuff, or recommend a better way of doing things.

Also, how then are Politicians or leaders made if one doesn't become one. Do you think they are born into it as a birth right.

You sure took this thread to a whole new level of insults didn't you?
I'll let you assume all you like, you really have NO idea.
I'll also leave that conversation at that and let your true personality shine for all to see.

So people cant change the way things are?

I didn't think what I said was unreasonable. But someone saying that no one can change anything, I think is wrong.

Maybe how I said it was a little harsh, for which I apologise. It wasn't a personal attack, it was just using the comment.
@Jexla Sorry for the post. Didn't mean it personally.

To be fair Jexlas post was pretty stupid and did invite some harsh criticism, jim160's post may have been a bit harsh but jexla's next post came across as very arrogant.

I always admit when I'm wrong, I take pride in it and it does happen often. With the amount of criticism you throw around jexla you should give it a try.

F$@k, I'm just feeding this silly thread ��

Originally Posted by Mauser308

To get back to the point of the start of the thread, any person who shoots another accidentally should get the fuc**ng book thrown at them and a nice little holiday at her majesty's expense to boot.

Reason for that, is that that person will suffer long term life changing injuries at best and worst permanent disability that all of us as NZ taxpayers pay through the eye teeth for and that doesn't even mention the trauma to the victims family members and dependants.

It just can't happen, and the fact that members of an organised force and even 'more highly trained' members of that force are guilty of the offense is even more damming. Bad kit is a bullshit excuse, when you hold a potential instrument of death in your hands you are the only person responsible for that instrument. If I get in my ute (another potential instrument of death) and drive with bald tyres (cheaper than good ones) and slide off the road into a flock of schoolkids and create a war zone, I'm sure that the defective equipment excuse will work for me.

This is the same as the 1080 bullshit, one rule for government types and one for everyone else. There is no allowance for different levels of culpability, if I went to chuck a deadly toxin with no antidote around a public area with no lifecycle controls of any sort, I would get my arse thrown in the clink.

In the original thread, if a person is put into a trusted position as a member of the force protecting the public (with all of the high standards of training, execution and expectations that entails) and actually creates a situation where that same public is less safe or actually directly threatened, then that person has failed completely in the requirements and the trust placed in them by the public. There should and must be consequences for the simple fact that if there isn't a consequence, there is nothing to reassure the public that the organisation controlling the force actually takes the public safety component (the reason that the force exists) seriously.

Tripple like.

Originally Posted by Mauser308

To get back to the point of the start of the thread, any person who shoots another accidentally should get the fuc**ng book thrown at them and a nice little holiday at her majesty's expense to boot.

In the original thread, if a person is put into a trusted position as a member of the force protecting the public (with all of the high standards of training, execution and expectations that entails) and actually creates a situation where that same public is less safe or actually directly threatened, then that person has failed completely in the requirements and the trust placed in them by the public. There should and must be consequences for the simple fact that if there isn't a consequence, there is nothing to reassure the public that the organisation controlling the force actually takes the public safety component (the reason that the force exists) seriously.

Guilty until proven guilty ? Works well in North Korea.

There were consequences, the officer involved was charge, went to court, and a jury of his peers - THE COMMUNITY AT LARGE IN NAPIER - acquitted him after hearing the evidence presented after 4 days. Did you read the article or just jump to an angry conclusion ?

Lynch mob mentality ffs

Originally Posted by Kscott

Guilty until proven guilty ? Works well in North Korea.

There were consequences, the officer involved was charge, went to court, and a jury of his peers - THE COMMUNITY AT LARGE IN NAPIER - acquitted him after hearing the evidence presented after 4 days. Did you read the article or just jump to an angry conclusion ?

Lynch mob mentality ffs

Maybe mauser308 should say the same about ALL trials. the game of trials is the same for all of us.
Even gang members and murderers get off charges at jury trials, so why is it not fair for the police to have the same chances as everyone else.

Its how the justice system works. Acquittal doesn't mean innocence, just means not proven.

Originally Posted by Mauser308

Missing the point much?

What happens if the next AD or UD goes through a child or pregnant mum-to-be?

It's sheer dumb luck that it hasn't happened already, not good skill or good management (obviously).

Similar situation with a member of the public and an AD or a legitimate self-defense situation for whatever reason, and the person is basically garunteed a conviction to "send and reinforce the firearms safety message to the community". Or, cost them their house, health through stress, employment, marraige, etc etc just trying to keep their name clear.

Post what you will, there is no difference between a serving officer and average Jo and Jane Bloggs in that situation yet one gets the 'good ol boy done an oops' treatment and the other gets crushed by whatever means necessary.

One shooting of an innocent by anyone is inexcusible and unforgiveable, yet it keeps happening. I don't care who the nut behind the butt is. They should all be locked up so the message is clear, keep control of the weapon at all times and ID the target correctly.

Sorry, but you missed the point. I said, right or wrong, he went to trial and got acquitted.
He had the same chances as any other person has. It doesn't matter if he was a cop or not. If anything he would be at a disadvantage.

If you did the same, actually you wouldn't because you wouldn't arrest anyone. But if you accidently shot someone, you could go to trial and be found not guilty like anyone else.

Regardless, even if acquitted at trial, they still have the code of conduct which could cause him to lose his job anyway.

But to you, that doesn't matter. It seems as you believe that if a cop does something wrong, then they are guilty and should get the max penalty.

And you say that people should be locked up for not identifying their target correctly, I agree with that. Please explain how this relates to the cops rifle getting caught and discharging a round. He didn't aim it at him and pull the trigger, it was a UD.

But that seems to not matter to some people.

Originally Posted by Jexla

I like how you think that by just joining the police you can change how the whole organization works, that's like saying if you want the country to change, become and politician and you can do it....

AS IF

Well said and 100% correct. Maybe some of the prize dicks on here will wake up and realise this one day but im not betting thats going to happen any time soon.

I disagree, the right person at the top will change it in a few months, it's the same as any corporate company with all its rules and regulations. Air New Zealand a great example how things can be made better. Fonterras still got a way to go, it needs a change at the top as well!

Originally Posted by Tussock

"What happens if the next AD or UD goes through a child or pregnant mum-to-be?"

What happens if the pregnant mum-to-be is carrying a puppy and works at a children's hospital? What happens if it goes through the child, through two pregnant mums and exits through a second child? What happens if it goes through the fence of a kindergarten and intercepts a conga line of four year olds head on, killing 12 of them? What happens if the bullet ricocheted off a childs head, into a gas station and through a gas tank, incinerating a buss load of school children from a nice neighborhood, three pregnant woman and some tourists from Europe or America?

Agoraphobia?

that would be some serious bad luck