It doesn't get any better than this https://www.colfo.org/post/colfo-con...olent-criminal
:wtfsmilie:
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It doesn't get any better than this https://www.colfo.org/post/colfo-con...olent-criminal
:wtfsmilie:
Saw that. Redemption and rehabilitation is important in justice but there are limits. And to be given additional authority? WTF are they thinking?
A slap to the face of all the trouble free licenced firearms owners :wtfsmilie:Quote:
Originally Posted by no1_49er
My thoughts exactlyQuote:
Originally Posted by Oscar
I think your post should read 'It doesnt get any WORSE than this'Quote:
Originally Posted by no1_49er
WTF are these people thinking!!! 15 aggravated robberies is bloody serious offending.
'He has a different perspective'..............I bet. Doesnt cancel his past though. outrageous and bullshit.
That Beggars belief.
any one see any where what he intended to do with his FAL hunt ??? other than he was so pleased to have one - makes a mockery of vetting for a FAL allright
Well if they want to make it look like law abiding fal holders are the problem and we arent, why not give people like that a fal. Pretty easy way to tar us with the same brush when the inevitable happens. You can probably count the people that actually have our intrests at heart on one hand. Do you see anyone activley opposing any of this other that that count you did before. But dont worry come election time we will get offered the world again.......
This shit is the reason I don't watch the news, the stupidity and double standards everywhere are so frustrating
Perhaps its why you should watch the news. So we wont be blind sided.Quote:
Originally Posted by No good names left
Here's another one.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/cri...r-greg-newbold
Both these men have important viewpoints to put across, and I think offering hope that a decent normal life can be had after an appalling period of behaviour and resulting punishment.
I would say the time lapsed and the efforts made in that time are probably what has lead the FSA to approve a licence.
To play devil's advocate here. Isn't this what we want from the Justice system? A young fellow made some bad decisions 20 years ago, did his time and has come out of it for the better and from the looks of it hasn't reoffended since. He even runs a youth mentoring group focusing on young men that might be headed down the same path he did. Seems fine to me.
I put up the Stuff link about this chap wondering it it might cause a re-think about the indignation?
This guy is an aspirational role model and should be celebrated. Why should he be constrained?
I see a clarification from COLFO - the initial article reads as if he is a firearms licence vettor. This is not the case (and for me, shouldn't be even though he has rehabilitated, sometimes there are no second chances). Clumsy wording in the report, he doesn't vet people for firearms licences.
\Quote:
Originally Posted by Coop
Yeah man, you serve your time and you have paid your dues, that is the way our court system (if not society) works.
Outrage is the easier option though :thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by Tahr
Ok thats how I read itas well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Oscar
That gives me hope that one day my delinquent offspring may indeed be able to own firearms again.... Just have to live in hope the light is seen and corner turned...soon..please God...soon.
No it's not how it works, doing your time is part of your punishment. But you have acquired yourself a criminal record and that comes with lifelong implications, your 'dues' are never 'paid'. Our society does not simply forget your crimes when you walk out of prison.Quote:
Originally Posted by inglishill
Hell there are people having FAL issues with just speeding tickets.
I tell my boys to keep their noses clean if they want to travel overseas, if they want good jobs, or ... if they want a FAL. If you want the privileges society can afford you then keep out of trouble. This now sends a different message.
Lets be honest, there's more going on here than he just cleaned up his act.
So you are not a believer in redemption then? Fair enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by vulcannz
I think that is the point. With VERY few exceptions, everybody who goes inside gets out. This guy is now a functioning member of society - and that is a whole lot better than the typical story. Around 57% of ex inmates reoffend within 2 years, and 37% or so are reinterred within 2 years of release - which would suggest serious reoffending. Something isn't working, and it's costing us a fortune in direct and indirect costs.Quote:
Originally Posted by vulcannz
Understood. Said it to my lads. In this instant I think the message it sends is hope. Its says "do your time, behave in an exemplary manner and contribute to society, and you may regain some privileges. But we will not forget and many will never forgive".Quote:
Originally Posted by vulcannz
Redemption: the action of regaining or gaining possession of something in exchange for payment, or clearing a debt.
Ive heard of people loosing a fal just over saying something. Yea the guy has done his time but 15 armed robberys????? Na sorry no fal from me. Do we let reformed rapists work in child care?
Quite ironic that he was a rugby player
Perhaps he is going to try and be a Police Officer now.Quote:
Originally Posted by blip
The rehabilitation discussion is really interesting - as a firearms licence holder the conversations I've been a part of would indicate that the "clean slate" system would not be applicable, yet in certain cases people with extensive and serious offending turn up as examples where this is not the case.
It would be really interesting to have this laid out somewhere where we could look at a document that guides the thought process behind the issuing of FAL's in cases like this - why some get a "no, don't bother applying" and others are successful.
I think youll find its the same old different rules for different people. Youd think one rule for everyone would be a far simpler system to opperate but aplarently it musnt be
League. That makes his reform even more commendable. :thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by blip
At least he'd pass the physical:PQuote:
Originally Posted by inglishill
The COLFO link in the first post now doesn't work
He shouldn't be, but that doesn't mean he should hold a firearms license. We peasants get knocked back for traffic offenses.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tahr
You must be under the misguided impression that the justice (sorry 'court') system is a) fair and b) actually cares about justice :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Growlybear
Really irritates me how society grabs hold of these "stories or redemption" as if it's some awesome way to show our kids etc they can make something of themselves. Nobody puts any value on the person who actually puts their head down in life and goes out and achieves things WITHOUT being a fuckhead first. It's like teaching young ones that it's all good to go around being an antisocial menace to society as long as you eventually clean up your act you'll be all good. There's a guy in the farming community like this also, sick of seeing his face plastered everywhere because he "turned his life around" the guy and his mates kicked a pensioners head in and killed him. I believe you should have to carry the burden of your actions always. Wouldn't surprise me if he has a FAL now also
He's guilty of committing 15 armed robberies. Did 6 years in prison. And can now have a FAL.
But us ex military types, who were assessed as having sufficient integrity and strength of conviction to be personally responsible for a couple of dozen belt fed machine guns and couple of hundred assault rifles are not deemed fit to own a semi automatic hunting firearm.
Two different standards for two different types of people I think:XD:
How many people in the NZDF? - Maybe 15k or so. Hardly enough to matter as a voting bloc.Quote:
Originally Posted by XR500
And that is all that matters to a politician.
Irs always like that though. The person who works hard and payes their dues is a net gain to society,the fuckwit is a cost.Fuckwits generally breed lots of fuckwits until the fuckwit base is so broard they become an attractive mass of potential voters.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan_Songhurst
Breaking the cycle of fuckwittery isn't an option there on after,so more and more GC's leave the country.
It is ironic to see the various European countries that were in the process of disarming the civilians now actively trying to put firearms in their hands.Quote:
Originally Posted by XR500
I suppose one conclusion that one may draw from this is that those who are in power want to disarm civilian populations, why, well, they must think they are doing something wrong and need to 'protect' themselves with the disarming. As soon as a credible threat emerges, they want to rearm the populace, the threat from external forces are larger than the threat from the internal ones. History has shown this is the mechanism of choice over and over.
I do not agree with it but am able to see the pattern. Problem is that the populations have always allowed this to happen under the guise of 'for your protection'.
There have always been those who have said 'Not on my watch', but they are the ones who are penalised the most, and, the earliest.
Perhaps it may eventuate that this fellow will in the future commit more armed burglaries, I don't have a crystal ball and can not predict that, but if he does, it would be spun so that the upstanding success story can go wrong, so NO ONE may then be trusted. The past will be by convenience forgotten and those that remember the past and make comment will be tarred as 'conspiracy nuts' or 'right wing extremists' or whatever the hatred for the day is.
If there is a better way to stop this cycle, I have not thought of it yet.
You are correct about the original link.Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy Jack
COLFO have updated their post and admitted that they did not sufficiently fact-check their statement. Too reliant on the veracity of the original information/source.
The correction here https://www.colfo.org/post/colfo-apo...ed-information
There needs to be a recognition of rehabilitation over a period of time, where the conduct and behavior of a person convicted demonstrates they have reformed, and they have not reoffended. Without this it is very difficult for people reenter society. There are a number of people with convictions for crimes committed when they are young and often immature or just dumb. If they learn from this and there is no reoffending then I have no issue with them obtaining a FAL, however there is clearly a limit.
This is why there is currently a 7-year limit on the disclosure of some previous convictions, to allow those with convictions to operate in society without the stigma of their past, given they have not reoffended.
Multiple serious offences like aggravated robbery should disqualify one from ever holding a firearms license. Violent offences must be viewed as a major red flag, without question.
It is hard to accept that a FAL could be granted to anyone with 15 serious convictions involving violent offending and it raises serious questions about the integrity of the system which allowed this to happen, given the current Police stance on criminals having access to firearms.
While I am unsure of the date the FAL was issued, I would have expected aggravated robbery x 15 would have prevented it irrespective of the date of application.
It would be good to understand if anyone is going to make an official information request to see the decision to justify the granting of this FAL. Be good to watch Cahill squirm trying to justify it as well, given his stance.