Thread: Italians and Firearms

Originally Posted by Cordite

Hey I did sneak in a general reference to Herr Dr Wernher von Braun.

Anyway, I don't visualise jew haters launching solid fuel rockets when I hear "Rocket Scientist" - more like short back and side or buzz shaved men with horn rimmed glasses and slide rules, usually wearing short sleeved white shirts or lab coats.

Here's the guys at Rocket Labs getting into the spirit of things, on their annual "dress like a 1960s rocket scientist day"
Attachment 97429

Perfect @Cordite, you email the blokes at Rocket lab and ask them the question, which is harder.... I put a slab of Speights on me being right !!
P.S The Palastinians are not jew haters, they are Israel haters - there is quite a difference.

Originally Posted by Moa Hunter

Perfect @Cordite, you email the blokes at Rocket lab and ask them the question, which is harder.... I put a slab of Speights on me being right !!
P.S The Palastinians are not jew haters, they are Israel haters - there is quite a difference.

Arab palestinians are frequently both Israel haters and jew haters. Jewish palestinians are occasionally Israel haters. Arabs generally are jew haters, because Mohammed was a jew hater. Ask each arab nation what happened to their jews - it's not as if they all suddenly developed a random desire to emigrate.

But I guess the guys at Rocket Labs would agree, must be especially hard to understand women if you are also an Aspergery geek making rockets, or maybe not. Anyway, my particular German Frau does not ask for anything too unreasonable. Then again, I'm from a similar culture nation to hers, and have a slightly similar accent when I speak English. Ja.

Originally Posted by Cordite

Arab palestinians are frequently both Israel haters and jew haters. Jewish palestinians are occasionally Israel haters. Arabs generally are jew haters, because Mohammed was a jew hater. Ask each arab nation what happened to their jews - it's not as if they all suddenly developed a random desire to emigrate.

But I guess the guys at Rocket Labs would agree, must be especially hard to understand women if you are also an Aspergery geek making rockets, or maybe not. Anyway, my particular German Frau does not ask for anything too unreasonable. Then again, I'm from a similar culture nation to hers, and have a slightly similar accent when I speak English. Ja.

I am trying to remember way back to High School history class here, but didn't Muhammad fight with the Jewish tribes and protect them from the Byzantian Romans ? I thought the problems with Israel came after the jewish terrorist Ben Gurion murdered staff at the British embassy and then other Govt officials at the King David Hotel followed with attacks on Palestinians. The Romans of course being Italian so this does not deviate entirely from the thread.

Originally Posted by Moa Hunter

I am trying to remember way back to High School history class here, but didn't Muhammad fight with the Jewish tribes and protect them from the Byzantian Romans ? I thought the problems with Israel came after the jewish terrorist Ben Gurion murdered staff at the British embassy and then other Govt officials at the King David Hotel followed with attacks on Palestinians. The Romans of course being Italian so this does not deviate entirely from the thread.

Yes, early in his career when he was weak politically/militarily he had alliances with the Jews. As the boot got on the other foot, he became increasingly hostile towards Jews, not helped by their rejection of his self-proclaimed prophethood, and is modus operandi changed to forced proselytising, enslavement and murdering "the Jew". His followers likewise. Christian Palestinian arabs don't attack Jews or blow themselves up.1

Sadly arabs who formerly lived in Palestine are not integrated by their host nations. In Lebanon for example, they are not allowed to own houses or land - laws were passed to this effect to keep the Jewish-Palestinian grievance alive (source: saw it on Al Jazeera, surprised they broadcast such a damning indictment, to their credit). Israel on the other hand has fully integrated Jews expelled from arab countries, but expulsions in that direction were not talked about in our history lessons.

As for the Romans/Italians. Not sure they are any less safer or not on the roads or out hunting. NZ ranks No 17 in the world in terms of gun ownership, 26.3 guns per 100 persons. Italy ranks No 41, with 14.4 guns per 100. (Source: Wikipedia) But not sure where they get the numbers from. Does not count FAL holders of course, and Italians may of course just have fewer and nicer guns, with slings made of finer leather etc etc. But hey, let's give them of their own medicine and crucify them over their hunting deaths.

Originally Posted by Cordite

Yes, early in his career when he was weak politically/militarily he had alliances with the Jews. As the boot got on the other foot, he became increasingly hostile towards Jews, not helped by their rejection of his self-proclaimed prophethood, and is modus operandi changed to forced proselytising, enslavement and murdering "the Jew". His followers likewise. Christian Palestinian arabs don't attack Jews or blow themselves up.1

Sadly arabs who formerly lived in Palestine are not integrated by their host nations. In Lebanon for example, they are not allowed to own houses or land - laws were passed to this effect to keep the Jewish-Palestinian grievance alive (source: saw it on Al Jazeera, surprised they broadcast such a damning indictment, to their credit). Israel on the other hand has fully integrated Jews expelled from arab countries, but expulsions in that direction were not talked about in our history lessons.

As for the Romans/Italians. Not sure they are any less safer or not on the roads or out hunting. NZ ranks No 17 in the world in terms of gun ownership, 26.3 guns per 100 persons. Italy ranks No 41, with 14.4 guns per 100. (Source: Wikipedia) But not sure where they get the numbers from. Does not count FAL holders of course, and Italians may of course just have fewer and nicer guns, with slings made of finer leather etc etc. But hey, let's give them of their own medicine and crucify them over their hunting deaths.

@Cordite
I think you have got some of this history mixed up. The Roman plan for the Holy land was approved by the Pope around 900AD with attacks on European Jews starting in 1096. The Vatican later negotiated with and financed Muhammad to help annihilate the Jews. But when the Islamic forces captured Jerusalem in the name of the Prophet the Pope was blocked from moving the Vatican there. Muhammad then protected everyone from Rome. So I guess this shows the Italians have always been poor shots as they seem to be to this day
If we could find out actual statistics, I wouldn't be surprised at all if Israel shot more civilians as a percentage than any other nation. What is your opinion of the Talmud decree that 'If a Goy (non jew) strikes a jew then it is right for the jew to kill the Goy because the Goy is not a real Human' unquote ?.
What is your opinion of the Israeli firebombing and sinking of the USS Liberty and machine-gunning of the surviving Coms. staff and crew in lifeboats ?

Originally Posted by Moa Hunter

@Cordite
I think you have got some of this history mixed up. The Roman plan for the Holy land was approved by the Pope around 900AD with attacks on European Jews starting in 1096. The Vatican later negotiated with and financed Muhammad to help annihilate the Jews. But when the Islamic forces captured Jerusalem in the name of the Prophet the Pope was blocked from moving the Vatican there. Muhammad then protected everyone from Rome.

Muhammad died 632 AD, never made it to Jerusalem himself.

Originally Posted by Moa Hunter

So I guess this shows the Italians have always been poor shots as they seem to be to this day
If we could find out actual statistics, I wouldn't be surprised at all if Israel shot more civilians as a percentage than any other nation.

Maybe, maybe not. There is a constant war going on there after all. Ratio of shootings of persons to killshots may indicate something about the Israelis - but someone may spin it one way ("crap shots") or another ("trying not to kill"). I do wonder about US cop-on-civilian shootings not being higher per capita, but I can't readily find stats especially on Israel, say for 2017. So yes, finding the statistics is a problem as you say. But number of shootings does not tell much else than there is a violent conflict going on.

Originally Posted by Moa Hunter

What is your opinion of the Talmud decree that 'If a Goy (non jew) strikes a jew then it is right for the jew to kill the Goy because the Goy is not a real Human' unquote ?.

Yuck. It is the Talmud, which is rabbinic commentary, which supposedly supercedes the Torah / Law which is known to most christians as the first five books of the old testament. A bigoted individual who had lost his way wrote that, god knows what negative experiences it stemmed from, but wrong nevertheless, and a lot of horrendous attitudes in this. It aptly illustrates God's statement recorded in the Torah to the nation of Israel: "I did not choose you because you are a righteous people, for you are a stiffnecked people". Rejecting the prevailing paradigm of the Arab-Israeli conflict does not mean I believe the sun shines out of every hairy Jewish butt - far from it.

Originally Posted by Moa Hunter

What is your opinion of the Israeli firebombing and sinking of the USS Liberty and machine-gunning of the surviving Coms. staff and crew in lifeboats ?

Pretty effective attack as attacks go, but wrong ship. USS Liberty spy ship attacked 1967 in a war zone. 34 crewmen killed, 171 wounded, ship not sunk as attack was called off when it was realised she was non-Egyptian as her numbers were not in cursive arabic style. Here is image of it day after the attack in 1967, during the 6-day war. Machine gunning of crew in lifeboats was not alleged by any witness. I have no unexpected opinion on this sad episode: poor communication, too close to the wrong place at the wrong time, USS Liberty looked like an Egyptian auxillary ship, mistaken identity, friendly fire, but attack called off before it turned to annihilation/sinking. Americans do horrendous "friendly fire" incidents too and they did accept this was one where they were on the receiving end.

USS Liberty, day after attack.

Egyptian Auxillary Ship Emira Fauza