Thread: Kawerau siege - Stuff court report

Was interested to read this report today. Report is here:

Shots fired through wall by armed police officer during Kawerau siege | Stuff.co.nz

The parts I particularly liked (not):

"Roe fired "multiple shots" through the wall into the bedroom where the alleged gunshot had come from.

Under cross-examination from Warren, Roe revealed he had fired 17 rounds from his M4 rifle.
"It's controlled aggression," Roe said. "You are not out of control."

But earlier he’d said:

Roe said tear gas could have been used, however there was the possibility a child or an elderly person in the house as well as the person the police were seeking. It was a decision that had been made by his superiors to not use tear gas, he said."

Obviously his x-ray vision allowed him to ascertain that there were no children or elderly persons in the bedroom!

Gives a whole new meaning to the concept of identify your target :-(

Can not be too many kauri trees being felled these days to enable someone to use that analogy. Good old stuff.

Gotta wonder what their training is like and in particular their rules of engagement.

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Originally Posted by NZ_noddy

Was interested to read this report today. Report is here:

Shots fired through wall by armed police officer during Kawerau siege | Stuff.co.nz

The parts I particularly liked (not):

"Roe fired "multiple shots" through the wall into the bedroom where the alleged gunshot had come from.

Under cross-examination from Warren, Roe revealed he had fired 17 rounds from his M4 rifle.
"It's controlled aggression," Roe said. "You are not out of control."

I didn't read the whole thing but that quote was right at the top. You left out the part of seeing his mate hit or being felled like a tree, just before firing through the wall.
I'm all in for a laugh at the police when they shoot themselves, or think what idiots when stray bullets are flying around town tying to shoot a dog.
However,
If I was in the house like him, and just seen my mate get hit, and I'm backed by the law, and a scumbag is shooting at me, you can bet I would be mag dumping that ar15 too. Is his family in there, I hope not, if they are, I'm sorry, but it's the scumbags fault if they are. I would be there trying to stay alive.
That is not safe practice while hunting, that is using reasonable force against a bad guy, while trying to keep your life.

I would have said that the Police reacted exactly the way they have been trained.

I don't understand. I thought we had people to do this kind of work when negotiations have failed?

Probably not fair to quote him about decisions made (not his) prior to what unfolded...that goes out the door when your mates have just been shot at point blank I'm afraid and you are returning fire.
The only shame is that he is alive to defend himself in court.

Originally Posted by bully

I didn't read the whole thing but that quote was right at the top. You left out the part of seeing his mate hit or being felled like a tree, just before firing through the wall.
I'm all in for a laugh at the police when they shoot themselves, or think what idiots when stray bullets are flying around town tying to shoot a dog.
However,
If I was in the house like him, and just seen my mate get hit, and I'm backed by the law, and a scumbag is shooting at me, you can bet I would be mag dumping that ar15 too. Is his family in there, I hope not, if they are, I'm sorry, but it's the scumbags fault if they are. I would be there trying to stay alive.
That is not safe practice while hunting, that is using reasonable force against a bad guy, while trying to keep your life.

I think the issue is that he fired through a wall, through which he couldn't see. If they honestly believed that there may have been children or elderly people in the house, with enough conviction to not use CS gas or "tear gas" then why would firing through a wall be appropriate?

Originally Posted by Daggers_187

I think the issue is that he fired through a wall, through which he couldn't see. If they honestly believed that there may have been children or elderly people in the house, with enough conviction to not use CS gas or "tear gas" then why would firing through a wall be appropriate?

To protect the lives of other Police in immediate danger, including self?

Originally Posted by Tahr

To protect the lives of other Police in immediate danger, including self?

Sounds like they should have just gassed the house, donned gas-masks and apprehended him while he was incapacitated?

Originally Posted by Daggers_187

Sounds like they should have just gassed the house, donned gas-masks and apprehended him while he was incapacitated?

*and hope he was susceptible to the effects of CS gas.

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Except it appears they're lacking tactics in this case.

I'm more surprised that those higher up made them go in after an armed guy in a house when gas or other options were available. To me that shows they value the lives of the 4 poor bastards who have to actually go kick in doors less than someone's granny getting hurty eyes. Most people on here know what happens when you shoot animals at close range with any firearm. Can you imagine how much you'd be shitting yourself? Of course they stitched the place up! Fuck that, give them a deadline and gas the fuck out of it.

Originally Posted by stug

I would have said that the Police reacted exactly the way they have been trained.

Poorly then.