Thread: The Law - any clarity?

I was out shooting last night with a mate on his lifestyle block (20acres). No issues - but the neighbour came over for a beer afterwards (he heard us even on subsonic .22) and we started to discuss where can you legally shoot or rather not shoot. The law refers to "built up areas" ... what does this really mean? If I'm on 20 acres I'm okay unless I'm beside 2x1 acre house plots. Are there any facts or stats or is it a subjective situation based on basic firearm safety principles.
Any coppers or experts out there willing to share their legal thoughts? Facts please ... cheers Gunzrrr

My in-laws live north of Auckland. A couple of properties up from them, their friends' neighbour fires large calibre rifles every weekend and the reported duration of these sessions is lengthy, so much so that they complained to the police about it several times (they're in their 60s). The properties are large - not sure how many acres exactly but big enough for cows (whatever the black ones are) and sheep.

Apparently the police don't want anything to do with it which is in stark contrast to the NZHS member in Gisborne who was shooting on his property and was visited by the police.

*shrugs*

Originally Posted by Ryan

My in-laws live north of Auckland. A couple of properties up from them, their friends' neighbour fires large calibre rifles every weekend and the reported duration of these sessions is lengthy, so much so that they complained to the police about it several times (they're in their 60s). The properties are large - not sure how many acres exactly but big enough for cows (whatever the black ones are) and sheep.

Apparently the police don't want anything to do with it which is in stark contrast to the NZHS member in Gisborne who was shooting on his property and was visited by the police.

*shrugs*

At 60 your parents should be deaf enough for it not to be a concern, give them ear muffs for xmas?

I think its around the fact of if it is dangerous or alarming to other people.
Causing annoyance or alarm is enough for the Police to charge.
And if the Police think the firing is reckless or dangerous, then even if there is not enough to charge the person, they would likely look to revoke the licence and seize the firearms.

Very dodgy shooting near other houses/properties. all it takes is a complaint and you could loose the licence and guns.

There is no legal definition I believe. The key thing is not to piss your neighbours off. No angry neighbours = no problem. Angry neighbours = problem.

Originally Posted by Grunta

There is no legal definition I believe. The key thing is not to piss your neighbours off. No angry neighbours = no problem. Angry neighbours = problem.

That is true. I have a good relationship with my neighbours - who are happy that I'm killing bunnies. They are happy i bought suppressors so my centrefires are not so loud. ( I wanted them anyway so this gave me a reason to buy them ) They're Not happy that their little dog gets upset - but they are happy that I tell them when I'm going out so they can put the mutt away. They're happy I dont shoot all day long - but then I have the privilege of being able to walk out my backdoor with my rifle in my hand , so I dont want to push it ... any extended testing I now go to a far corner away from the houses. Its all about a little bit of give and take without bending over and taking it

Like most things around the Arms Act, it come down to the interpretation of the AO in question. When I thought I was in the right and the AO in the wrong (the matter in question was around the storage of bolts ammo and rifles in 3 seperate locations) I had no hesitancy in contacting the Police Head office for clarification - which came in my favour.

T

Originally Posted by Gunzrrr

I was out shooting last night with a mate on his lifestyle block (20acres). No issues - but the neighbour came over for a beer afterwards (he heard us even on subsonic .22) and we started to discuss where can you legally shoot or rather not shoot. The law refers to "built up areas" ... what does this really mean? If I'm on 20 acres I'm okay unless I'm beside 2x1 acre house plots. Are there any facts or stats or is it a subjective situation based on basic firearm safety principles.
Any coppers or experts out there willing to share their legal thoughts? Facts please ... cheers Gunzrrr

I agree, some more clarity around these items would be great.....and a lot of the other grey areas.

A little bit of consideration for neighbours by keeping them informed really does go a long way.

You also may find, that it heavily depends on how far from town the property is, whether you get a town cop or a rural cop responding.
Rural cop is likely to be more understanding and actually discuss the issue and find a resolution, where town cops.... Who knows, we've all heard stories.

Also, OP, sounds like you've been reading the arms code, this isn't legislation but a "code" written by the police to try make the laws more understandable whilst adding in their own interpretations and rules.
For legislation (actual law, not some handbook) please refer to the following:

Every person commits an offence and is liable on conviction to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 3 months or to a fine not exceeding $3,000 or to both who, without reasonable cause, discharges a firearm, airgun, pistol, or restricted weapon in or near—
(a)a dwellinghouse; or
(b)a public place,—
so as to endanger property or to endanger, annoy, or frighten any person.

I shoot around the houses out here, Bach's mostly. All of the owners are keen for me to do it as I know who is where and when. I use subs and pick up all of the game afterwards, sometimes the property owner may want a rabbit or 2 for what ever reason. I have told all of my clients that I won't come on to their properties if they lay poison for rabbits as I can't afford to loose 1 of my dogs. Obviously using ones brains around how 1 hunts these area's as to not piss people off goes along way.

You nailed that one Sydney!
Its pretty black and white.

Hi all,
A couple of nice takeaways here.
1) email neighbours so in writing and be clear with some details.
2) cover your arse if shooting near public place or dwellings by notifying police.
Thanks to all ... keep safe in the hills ... and near the neighbours ... cheers Gunzrrr

Originally Posted by Gunzrrr

I was out shooting last night with a mate on his lifestyle block (20acres). No issues - but the neighbour came over for a beer afterwards (he heard us even on subsonic .22) and we started to discuss where can you legally shoot or rather not shoot. The law refers to "built up areas" ... what does this really mean? If I'm on 20 acres I'm okay unless I'm beside 2x1 acre house plots. Are there any facts or stats or is it a subjective situation based on basic firearm safety principles.
Any coppers or experts out there willing to share their legal thoughts? Facts please ... cheers Gunzrrr

Im on 25 acres in carterton and most of my neighbours shoot, clays one side and rifles the other. i have a range to 300 yds and no one has complained about the noise. Until i blasted a large stump, 6 complaints.

Thats great... pretty much destroys her credibility for future complaints... Insist that she be prosecuted for making a false complaint...

Every person commits an offence and is liable on conviction to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 3 months or to a fine not exceeding $3,000 or to both who, without reasonable cause, discharges a firearm, airgun, pistol, or restricted weapon in or near—
(a)a dwellinghouse; or
(b)a public place,—
so as to endanger property or to endanger, annoy, or frighten any person.

My reading of that section is that if you have a reasonable cause to discharge a firearm and someone is annoyed or frightened, then it is their bad luck. I think it is written so that you cannot use a firearm to deliberately annoy or scare a person/your neighbours.

Sighting your rifle in, shooting clay pigeons is a reasonable cause.

I know a guy that went around his neighbours and told them he was going to be regularly shooting on his property, if they objected he told them he would by a motocross bike and ride around on his land for hours on end.