Thread: Loaded Rifle

Years back a ratbag relative of our shepherd got sent down for a sort-out from Auckland. He ran away, broke into our house while we were on holiday and loaded up one of our cars with blankets, alcohol and a single shot 22 rifle. He then crashed the car into the picnic table because he couldn't drive (I think he was 14 or 15 years old). The shepherd saw the car had moved and thought we were home early, but he caught the kid and handed him over to the police. Apparently he managed to steal a police car in Te Awamutu and crash that too.
The gear in our car was put back where it belonged.
I think it was several weeks later I went to use the 22. I opened the bolt and a live round fell out. Thankfully it was a manual cocking rifle, but obviously no-one checked it was unloaded when they got it out of the car.

Originally Posted by timattalon

That was my understanding. The changes around locks etc were when leaving the car. If you were still in the car, rifle was said to be in your possession. Not allowed live rounds in the rifle so still could have been an awkward chat if an officer had appeared and wanted a chat....

I had a very close call that years later I still shake at. I was carrying a bolt action with the bolt open and my foot slipped as I clambered over a pile of fallen branches. The rifle went down between the branches stock first pointing up at me. I quickly moved away from the pointy end and lifted it clear. What I did not see was the bolt handle had caught a branch as it went down and as I pulled it clear I saw it was now closed. When I opened it, I saw it it had loaded as well. So very easily the trigger only had to catch a twig on the way out and it would have discharged. I still consider myself very lucky. I should have closed the bolt on the empty chamber or removed the magazine before clambering across the branches , or found another route. To this day, that is what I do. I learnt my lesson and thank god it was not the hard way.

a guy i used to hunt with lost a good mate to something similar . . they were out Pig hunting in the rough stuff when they split up, a shot was heard in the distance and that was that, he had accidentley shot himself with a .308
i remember getting the phone call his mate was lost and they were out looking for him . . found the body the next day.
we all know he had broken all the rules but understandable, you tend to bend the rules when your young, in close and the blood is up.

Originally Posted by timattalon

I had a very close call that years later I still shake at. I was carrying a bolt action with the bolt open and my foot slipped as I clambered over a pile of fallen branches. The rifle went down between the branches stock first pointing up at me. I quickly moved away from the pointy end and lifted it clear. What I did not see was the bolt handle had caught a branch as it went down and as I pulled it clear I saw it was now closed. When I opened it, I saw it it had loaded as well. So very easily the trigger only had to catch a twig on the way out and it would have discharged. I still consider myself very lucky. I should have closed the bolt on the empty chamber or removed the magazine before clambering across the branches , or found another route. To this day, that is what I do. I learnt my lesson and thank god it was not the hard way.

I recall you have told that story before, and it struck home with me too so now I always unload completely when crossing tricky bits e.g. crossing streams, steep faces, climbing over logs etc, and I have taught the two young guys I take hunting to do the same.

Originally Posted by rossi.45

a guy i used to hunt with lost a good mate to something similar . . they were out Pig hunting in the rough stuff when they split up, a shot was heard in the distance and that was that, he had accidentley shot himself with a .308
i remember getting the phone call his mate was lost and they were out looking for him . . found the body the next day.
we all know he had broken all the rules but understandable, you tend to bend the rules when your young, in close and the blood is up.

But there is the rub, I had the bolt open while carrying it. Fully open and all the way back. It must have been pushed closed as it went down the hole. When I carry my rifle I have the action open and my thumb on the top of the round in the magazine. I close the bolt when I am ready to shoot at whatever I am aiming at. If I dont have time to close the bolt, then I dont have time to aim correctly or identify my target. (Please note, I am not saying others cannot react fast enough to do this, just that I am not )

Interesting examples, can I suggest the OP write a check sheet. Bolt out. Bore clear. Ammo away in box. Bolt away in pocket. Rifle in bag. Rifle in car.
I may have missed some steps but good process practiced. My bro in-law has a side arm for his work (not in NZ) but when he told me he gets to practice very infrequently I recommend he buy a copy BB gun and practice at home. Practice Good Process.

My first experience of an unwanted loaded rifle was when I was about 16 years old – a long time ago
A school Mate and I went down the Himitangi sand country for rabbits – rabbits were everywhere amongst the lupins
Dad let me take his beloved old De Soto car
I had a semi auto Gevarm and my Mate had a Winchester pump action with a long tube magazine
Back to the car after dark – unloaded the Gevarm and on the back seat – my Mate hopped in the front passenger seat beside me and proceeded to pump the mag empty – when he got to the end – he pulled the trigger – it went off near my left ear
A lovely burn mark in the upholstery and a pealed back hole in the roof
Went home and had a quiet talk with Dad – he said for Christ’s sake don’t tell Mum – or that will be the end of shooting for you
Dad took the car to the painter the next day – they filled the hole with bog and a coat of paint – ready for the next hunting trip
I never took the Winchester Mate with me after that!

Fire arm mishaps have been goin on fi decades plus. Don't matter how great one thinks he or she is around firearms,it'll happen one way or another. Early yrs,later yrs,you'll have a mishap at some stage if your an avid hunter. Makes me laugh ti hear those goody goods bleetin on about safety. Who's perfect anyway? just how careful is careful? some people are supposedly trained to be a so called expert,don't mean shit..imo It's not hard to accept reality...many wont,many cant.

Wow

Originally Posted by Micky Duck

so closed bolt and no safety applied.......yip I will stick to semi open/closed bolt thankyou very much......

At the NZDA Hunter Training Course a couple of winters past I learned something moot. I too grew up on a 303 SMLE with a half open bolt. What I learned was a Mauser action can still fire on half cock. There is a simple test. With an empty chamber, muzzle safely pointed, put your Mauser on half cock and pull the trigger. Try it again and again several times on slightly different bolt positions if it does not fire at first. Cause it will eventually. Result is not only a bullet out the business end but potentially parts of a bolt decorating your face.

Their solution, when wanting to carry loaded and ready as possible but firearm unable to be discharged, is to chamber a round and open the bolt to lever fully raised ready to slide back and eject. To stop it accidentally sliding back and actually ejecting, stretch a heavy rubber band around front scope mount and back around the bolt handle so the bolt is held firmly in the closed position but with bolt handle fully raised. It cannot fire in this position until the bolt handle is locked down. When target is identified and ready to shoot simply close the bolt and fire.

With the rubber band in place I can stalk with firearm in a near ready condition, unable to be discharged in that condition, but able to be quickly and quietly made ready to fire simply by depressing the bolt handle to fully cock and lock the action. Cycling the bolt for a subsequent shot is no issue with the rubber band in place.

I have been using this system on my 98M 7x57mm Mauser since as well as for other Mauser style rifles. E.g. Ruger Ranch II 223

Of course you are still vulnerable to the bolt being closed and rifle discharged by dropping the rifle or snagging the bolt. Take care.

yip so I dont have bolt past the point of starting to cam..... have tried what you say in past and its all relative,its all about where its sitting...I recal mates father used to carry mauser .243 Midland I believe it was...he would chamber round and with trigger depressed close bolt slowly...the guy I got .270w off did the same..I saw dented primers and promptly decided not for me..also know chap who was carrying an 8mm mauser in that state,dropped it down bank,it hit striker on rock,fired taking off half his hand....I had that story confirmed by his son recently.
I know people who believe using chambered round and the safety catch is only way.....funny Im happy to do this with pump or semi shotgun...but not so much rifle..although used it with .22lr and still use bolt .22lr with bolt open....other folk believe empty chamber right up untill animal spotted is the way to go...different strokes for different folks I guess...just keep the plurry muzzle pointed in safe direction please,no matter what method you use.

Even if you’ve done all the seven rules wrong, number 8 counts I reckon….finger off the trigger. That’s where it ends.


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@Micky Duck hear what you are saying about the shotguns. I would say though that 90% of the roughest duck/game shooting I ever did is still way easier than some of the nastiest tiger country I've at times dragged a rifle through and when doing so with shotgun I'd unload when crossing fence, creek etc or anything else a bit hairy.
I did have a habit with my old stirling 22 where I would close the bolt with the trigger held down. You had to lift the bolt and back down again to cock it.
Never marked the primers and always pointed in a safe direction when doing so but not sure as I've got older about that

tiger country......yeah I can relate to that...and yes I unload before tackling it...I came down face so steep last year the dog stopped and puked..but she followed me down,bet she wont lead me that way ever again..she plurry clever in the bush,we can be mooching along and she will stop look at me with dopey grin tail wagging...yip we been here before boss...we went this way last time.... funny to see and great company. really good when carrying load down the hill,she knows the ways home,I just follow along and keep half N eye on where she taking me.
the only time I use a safety on bolt action is immediately before taking shot,if Im going to move tiny bit etc...otherwise I will reopen bolt. the howa 1500 is nice with open bolt to carry... like the concept of how Duleys change their 700s so the safety locks bolt open..... it should be standard feature as is the best of both camps.
the three most important safety rules for firearms handling in my camp
muzzle control
muzzle control
and finally muzzle control
if it isnt pointed in unsafe direction,nothing bad can happen even if it goes off....

Originally Posted by Cyclops

Thanks for the reminder.

On the target range we have to check the barrel is clear, get in confirmed and insert a chamber flag.
It can be an annoying discipline, but ensures no-one leaves the mound with a loaded rifle.

Have you considered a chamber flag?

Does not always work though does it....

The thing that freaks me out on fullbore and smallbore ranges is the complete and utter disregard of muzzle awareness. People walk around sweeping others without any thought.

Once you get used to the procedures in place at most PNZ ranges a well as service rifle and field events, it is actually quite disconcerting walking around on a full-bore range...

@Micky Duck a guy I hunted with a couple of times used to carry his 303 with a round ‘up the spout’ and pulled the trigger back as he closed the bolt, claimed it was as safe as houses and he only had to pull the striker back when he wanted to take a shot.
At camp after finding this out I asked him for all the bullets from his magazine.
I looked at said bullets and said “these three have been rounds you’ve had ‘up the spout’ .
Showed him the indentations on the primers.

And I pointed out that a hard smack on the striker (such as during a fall on rocks) would fire the rifle, he changed his mind about how safe his method was.