Thread: Mail order firearm loophole??????????

Yes I know, this TV3 bullshit has been flogged to death BUT: I have perused a fair chunk of all the posts on this & have NOT been able to see where anyone has actually said what this cunning loophole was.

Can someone enlighten me please.

P.S. I have just had a visit from an agent of the mail order recipient in talking to me and I asked him directly " What was the loophole????"

Answer: " There wasn't one" ( unless you were prepared to commit a criminal act!!!)

Doesn't quite qualify as a "loophole" does it?????

SOOOOOOOO, does any bright spark out there know the answer?????

There was no loophole. A loophole being: "An omission or*Ambiguity*in a legal document that allows the intent of the document to be evaded."
http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/loophole

What they did was commit fraud, forgery and impersonated a Police officer.

You are right there was no loophole TV3 committed Fraud and Impersonating a Police officer and probably quite a few other crimes and walked away scot free any body else would be facing serious jail time,
the Police fixed something that wasn't broken, It comes down to the Police incompetence and Gun City not checking the mail order form if they had they would have seen it was not filled in properly,
That's my take on it I could be wrong.

Originally Posted by shooternz

the Police fixed something that wasn't broken, It comes down to the Police incompetence and Gun City not checking the mail order form if they had they would have seen it was not filled in properly,
That's my take on it I could be wrong.

Actually the Police didn't really "fix it", they imposed additional requirements, which they don't have the legal authority to do, to prevent similar incidents.

Guncity fulfilled all of their legal responsibilities.

You can't really blame the Police for the incident occurring, their response to it is another matter.

Originally Posted by shooternz

You are right there was no loophole TV3 committed Fraud and Impersonating a Police officer and probably quite a few other crimes and walked away scot free any body else would be facing serious jail time,
the Police fixed something that wasn't broken, It comes down to the Police incompetence and Gun City not checking the mail order form if they had they would have seen it was not filled in properly,
That's my take on it I could be wrong.

Shooter. I didn't really want to get this all started again BUT; Gun City did in fact run a check with their Arms Office on the licence details on the mail order form & it was kosher & up to date.They obviously couldn't check the police sign-off at the bottom which WAS the part that was fraudulent. The police,later on, also checked over 2000 mail order forms that GC had previously actioned and found NO sign of any irregularities. That must have REALLY pissed them off,eh????

Originally Posted by top gun

Shooter. I didn't really want to get this all started again

Yeah you did

Originally Posted by Gibo

Yeah you did

No I F'N did NOT!!!!!! I wanted to know what this mysterious loophole was & the fact that the F'N well wasn't one has been confirmed.

That's it. Over & out.

Don't know, but I ordered some ammo online. The vendor and the police did their bit according to the rules and the postie left the package on my doorstep for anyone to help themselves!

It was a flaw in the system, not a loophole.

And the flaw is that us Kiwi's are trusting people, so if a piece of paper arrived with a signature that says "I'm a Police Officer" people tend to accept it at face value. Irrespective of the legality of the signature. A minority number of people would take steps to check the details.

Park a van with a flashing yellow light on top in the middle of the street, and wear a high-viz vest and you'll get the same response. As a nation we're very trusting that what we see is what we want to see, and so trust and accept.

Originally Posted by Kscott

It was a flaw in the system, not a loophole.

And the flaw is that us Kiwi's are trusting people, so if a piece of paper arrived with a signature that says "I'm a Police Officer" people tend to accept it at face value. Irrespective of the legality of the signature. A minority number of people would take steps to check the details.

Park a van with a flashing yellow light on top in the middle of the street, and wear a high-viz vest and you'll get the same response. As a nation we're very trusting that what we see is what we want to see, and so trust and accept.

How would you go about checking the authenticity of the police sign-off at the bottom of the mail order form????

Originally Posted by top gun

How would you go about checking the authenticity of the police sign-off at the bottom of the mail order form????

Do what others have done, and pick up a telephone.

Originally Posted by Kscott

Do what others have done, and pick up a telephone.

And do you REALLY think that the police would confirm or deny that the police info at the bottom of the form was authentic or not????? Really?????

Originally Posted by top gun

And do you REALLY think that the police would confirm or deny that the police info at the bottom of the form was authentic or not????? Really?????

Yess !!!!! I do !!!! Why ?????? Because other people !!! have posted about it ?!!!!! and I have done so myself !!!!!

Originally Posted by Kscott

Do what others have done, and pick up a telephone.

What if that officer is not on duty? Transfered to night shift? On 4 weeks leave?

Originally Posted by Koshogi

What if that officer is not on duty? Transfered to night shift? On 4 weeks leave?

Nope he'd be the AO and he'd be sitting on his arse waiting for you to call! Because that's what he likes, in fact so much that he decided he's now the ONLY one that can really sign it off, it's a shambles and I think the police a a little frighten to open up as it's probably them that haven't been performing up to the mark! They have done some shoddy work on pistol sales, five years after I sold two of mine, I got a please explain where they were cause they were still in my name? I made a couple of phone calls to locate them, phone the AO back to be told he had sorted them! Yet shoddy bloody AO in another police station hadn't don't his job! It's ok cause it's only a pistol I know but if I didn't know who they were sold to it could have been a shit fight for me!