Thread: Mistaken for game hunting accidents and human factors report

Hi there, I've placed the full report in a dropbox for those interested.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/kdopwcxcq...4jKDuly_a?dl=0

Understanding human factors has made a big impact in mitigating aviation risks in the last few decades and is starting to be adopted in surgical setttings.
Note that this report is commissioned by Hunter Safety Lab however the authors have some serious academic credentials.
I've also added both the complete and summary To Hunt And Return reports by Insp. Joe Green as this is referenced in the HFEx report.

Regards

RichE

National Radio interview on the subject

Nine To Noon, Monday 12 October 2015 | Radio New Zealand National

They tried to parse out the difference between the merely negligent which tended to be the younger shooters and the target that they are really after which tended to be the more experienced hunters who were sure that they had id'd their targets

I gather that this was used in the successful defence of the guy who shot his son hunting on Stewart Island.

Ya I guess so.
I hope this judgment will be published
There are examples in aviation where the pilots are completely convinced they are all good and then fly into the ground. Or where one or more of the flight crew know they are in the sh!t but the pilot flying doesn't recognise the danger until too late. Classic local example being Flight Engineer Gordon Brookes on NZ 901.

Oops my mistake that's TE 901
For those grey beards who know what TEAL stands for

This whole issue of mistaken target identification is now actually receiving some attention thankfully...

The amount of times that the hang em' high brigade start up when an unintentional shooting takes place is frightening.

Clearly some people are negligent, but also clearly also our minds can play tricks on us. To make these matters simply a result of carelessness or negligence is to deny that we can also be subject to genuine misinterpretation of what we are seeing.

Denying that, allows us to continue shooting at what we are seeing, without the understanding that sometimes we are not seeing what we are seeing.

Now that might be frightening for us as we venture out, but surely it should make us a more careful trigger puller and a more deliberate target identifier. And that can't be a bad thing.

What ever the reason its not good,,, gave up the main roar time this year because of it and when your out now and there are other vehicles in the car park its in the back of your mind that you could also be a target.

Still believe you have a better chance of dying driving to your hunting spot than being shot when you get there. Identify your target beyond ALL doubt, as said before there is always going to be incidents- accidents while there is humans involved, we are not infallible.

I wonder what are the statistics for bow hunters shooting at a "deer shape or form " ?

When you look at the stats It seems to be the young or the very experienced . The young seems to make sence , i.e. too excited and not enough experience .
Im in the older very experienced bracket ,and there is NO WAY IN HELL IM GOING TO SHOOT AT ANYTHING BUT A IDENTIFIED ANIMAL . I say that but am I ? . I used to hunt every weekend or second weekend for years , but now I get out Deer hunting maybe only 10-20 days a year , does this lack of hunting put extra pressure on the choices ill make on the hill . ( In the past I would have said to myself plenty of deer sign ill come back next weekend if I don't get one , not like now wait 6 weeks ) My mate and I have noticed that when we take a young fella out , they now out find us on Deer WTF ! In our thirtys we could find a twitching deer ear at 100 paces in poor light (maybe talking that up but get the idear ). I wonder how much older hunters failing eyesight has got to do with these incidents , lets face it once you hit mid 40s your eysight is poos . So i surpose your other senses take over , you smell deer ,you hear deer ,your brain fills in the blanks and you see a deer . Scary shit really !

I'm not going to get on that pedestal, I know that this could happen to me, and because I know it could happen to me it is always in my mind. People that don't think it could happen to them because they are so careful blah blah are probably the ones most likely to have it happen. Experience means nothing with this, in fact it probably works against you as you've gotten away with it so many times before.

I agree with the judges decision, what could you possibly do to punish a man that has just killed his own son?! Jail, fines etc can't compare to the world of hurt he is in. I bet he'd swap places with his son in a heart beat.

Nod court imposed sentences stop people from falling asleep at the wheel or losing concentration? I doubt it as it would be the last thing on their mind, just as it's the last thing on my mind when I squeeze a trigger.

The problem I have with this judge is that she has sent the wrong message to all hunters-so, if I do stuff up big time and blow away my mate, I'll walk free.
The guy that shot his son did not stare intently for 20 minutes at "the deer" and view it from several different angles before he carefully took the shot as he claimed in Court- he saw a movement, thought it was a deer because he "wanted" it to be a deer, brought his rifle up and "Bang".Often, we come under the influence of buck fever because we may have hunted unsuccessfully for hours and seen nothing, and our frustration and anxiety over rules our common sense. I agree with the last post- given the right circumstances, it could happen to most of us.

Good post Savage 1.
I can't speak for the future but think I am well past the stage of where it could have happened to me. When every animal was worth a dollar I took some shots, that on reflection, were not ideal.
I have no need to shoot as many animals as I used to and I generally only shoot yearlings for the table. I have not shot a red stag in the rut for years due to not finding what I want.

Someone brought it up earlier about eyesight. Mine is not as sharp as it used to be and I spend even more time because of that, looking at a deer before I decide whether to shoot it.

I do less and less bush hunting as the deer numbers are high and if I do it is mainly during the rut. I need to get a good look at a stag before I would take it as it would have to be in the 320DS class. I'm still looking😆
I don't give a toss about coming home empty handed. I have done so for the last 8 red roars.
I really struggle to believe you can study something at 20m for a period of time and decide to shoot. I have hunted just about every species of deer in NZ. I have yet to come across 1 of them that would not be on edge with me being that close for any length of time.
In my experience deer do not stand still unless trying to suss you out or they are asleep. Their mannerisms and movements are unique in the bush.
I am very familiar with human factors being a pilot. In aviation it relates to things that trick our perception and the like. I do not believe the mistakes made in aviation due to human factors relate to hunting no matter what any expert tries to say.

I empithise with the bloke who shot his son but I believe he was careless and did not see a deer or study his target with any detail.
It could happen to anyone that's a fact but if it happens to me I would have failed to observe the one rule that would prevent it happening. Not because I seen something imaginary.

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A lot of hunter doesn't seem to care much for shot placement it seems. Shooting at something that is probably a deer is not a style of hunting id ever go for.

Yup I don't like the 20 mins thing.
I wasn't there but if I was looking at what I thought was a deer within 20m for 20 minutes I would be thinking it was asleep or already dead.
I most likely would have spooked it with a loud fart or my clumsyness anyway.

I just don't buy it.



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Originally Posted by Ranger 888

The problem I have with this judge is that she has sent the wrong message to all hunters-so, if I do stuff up big time and blow away my mate, I'll walk free.
The guy that shot his son did not stare intently for 20 minutes at "the deer" and view it from several different angles before he carefully took the shot as he claimed in Court- he saw a movement, thought it was a deer because he "wanted" it to be a deer, brought his rifle up and "Bang".Often, we come under the influence of buck fever because we may have hunted unsuccessfully for hours and seen nothing, and our frustration and anxiety over rules our common sense. I agree with the last post- given the right circumstances, it could happen to most of us.

Rubbish .... thats even more ridiculous that suggesting that tougher sentences would act as deterrent. Because that father was found to be not negligent, I'll just go out and blaze away? Deterence (fear of punishment) doesn't work for intentional crime, no chance of it working for unintended outcomes...

People shoot things because they think its something they are hunting. People are often careless, but not all are.... no-one will really know in any incident what that person experiences, but anyone who has had anything to do with people's recall of what has happened to them, knows that what people experience varies from person to person, when all are seeing the exact same scenario. Any policeman interviewing witnesses knows that to be true. It's the courts job to determine negligence. That court on balance called not... like R93 the 20 minutes thing makes you wonder, but remember the test is beyond all reasonable doubt.... the prosecution have to establish negligence for it to be applied...

The best chance of building awareness, is regular reminders of the trauma. So, frequent shootings are prescribed, not frequent court cases. Who thinks that is a good idea? If we are more aware we should be more likely to be careful. Proof of that is drink-drive social marketing.... they advertise outcomes, not court sentences. Who actually knows what the likely penalties are for varying drink driving offences.....? I haven't got a clue, thats not what stops me....