Thread: More stupidity

Originally Posted by systolic

I never said what is or isn't acceptable. I asked: Where does it say anywhere in the law how close supervision is? The law says "immediate supervision".

IMMEDIATE SUPERVISION
No matter how old you are, if you do not have a firearms
licence but want to use a firearm, you may do so only under the
immediate supervision of someone who has a firearms licence.
In other words, the person with the licence must be with the
shooter, and close enough to take control of the firearm if
necessary. To meet this requirement the supervisor cannot be
using a firearm at the same time. Generally, this means that
there will be only one firearm between the two people.


Close enough to take control of the firearm if necessary. Unless you deem kicking it out of their hands as acceptable then I would suggest that 'within arms length' is correct.

Originally Posted by Ricochet

IMMEDIATE SUPERVISION
No matter how old you are, if you do not have a firearms
licence but want to use a firearm, you may do so only under the
immediate supervision of someone who has a firearms licence.
In other words, the person with the licence must be with the
shooter, and close enough to take control of the firearm if
necessary. To meet this requirement the supervisor cannot be
using a firearm at the same time. Generally, this means that
there will be only one firearm between the two people.


Close enough to take control of the firearm if necessary. Unless you deem kicking it out of their hands as acceptable then I would suggest that 'within arms length' is correct.

Taken from the police Arms Code. NOT law. NOT regulation.

Are you willing to accept police made up policy? Like their policies around MSSA length, safe wall thickness, caliber import restrictions, special reasons etc.

Originally Posted by systolic

Taken from the police Arms Code. NOT law. NOT regulation.

Are you willing to accept police made up policy? Like their policies around MSSA length, safe wall thickness, caliber import restrictions, special reasons etc.

If you are so smart , then get the bloke who lent him the shotgun off the charge ???????

Originally Posted by Tankd

If you are so smart , then get the bloke who lent him the shotgun off the charge ???????

PM me his details, I know someone that will have a hard look. One of the two best firearms barristers in NZ.

Originally Posted by systolic

Taken from the police Arms Code. NOT law. NOT regulation.

Are you willing to accept police made up policy? Like their policies around MSSA length, safe wall thickness, caliber import restrictions, special reasons etc.

...but the courts create common law, which in the absence of a legislative definition will apply. Arguing on the internet and living in your ivory tower (or under your bridge...) proves nothing - it is for the courts to determine parliaments intention.
10ring's definition of immediate above gives the literal and practical interpretation that a court will rely on.
I'm not going to look through case law to prove a point, over the internet with a cock who likes arguing - I can't be bothered.

Originally Posted by systolic

Taken from the police Arms Code. NOT law. NOT regulation.

Are you willing to accept police made up policy? Like their policies around MSSA length, safe wall thickness, caliber import restrictions, special reasons etc.

So to clarify, Are you saying the Arms code is wrong? Or unreasonable?

I agree thats it's not law just because it is in the Arms code. But if I am supervising an unlicensed shooter, that is what I do, not because I believe the Arms code to be law, but because I believe it is the right thing to do by the person I am responsible for. While they are under my supervision, it is my responsibility to ensure they are safe no matter what happens.

Originally Posted by timattalon

So to clarify, Are you saying the Arms code is wrong? Or unreasonable?

I agree thats it's not law just because it is in the Arms code. But if I am supervising an unlicensed shooter, that is what I do, not because I believe the Arms code to be law, but because I believe it is the right thing to do by the person I am responsible for. While they are under my supervision, it is my responsibility to ensure they are safe no matter what happens.

You could certainly do a lot worse than using the Code as a best practice guideline. Good on you.

Really? The arms code isn't the law? I never knew that. I concede the point to you then Sir.

Originally Posted by Rushy

No need to cringe. It was very different back then Zimmer. At 12 I was shooting rats with a .22 at the dump in Newells Road in Tokoroa and I sure as hell wasn't dropped off out there. Kid, bike, rifle across handle bars. No one thought twice about seeing a kid with a rifle back then. Despite the over regulated world we live in, I bet there are still places in this country where kids that age and younger are still shooting bunnies by themselves and are perfectly safe in doing so because they have been drilled in how to properly handle a firearm since they were old enough to walk across a paddock with their old man. For those of you that have grown up wrapped in the cotton wool of modern nanny state legislation I would note that this is not me being an advocate for illegal activities, it is just the pragmatist in me saying that it will still be happening.

Ah! The Newell Road dump. Brings back many .22 rat shooting memories at 13/14 years old. Thanks Rushy.

Originally Posted by 10-Ring

Ah! The Newell Road dump. Brings back many .22 rat shooting memories at 13/14 years old. Thanks Rushy.

It was part of growing up in the town. How did you get out there back in the day?

Originally Posted by Rushy

It was part of growing up in the town. How did you get out there back in the day?

Biked out, usually with my mate sitting on the crossbar. Passing motorists used to wave to us.

Originally Posted by 10-Ring

Biked out, usually with my mate sitting on the crossbar. Passing motorists used to wave to us.

I rest my case! It is a different world we live in now (mores the pity)but I would like to think that in some small corner of the country that still happens.

Originally Posted by Rushy

I rest my case! It is a different world we live in now (mores the pity)but I would like to think that in some small corner of the country that still happens.

Agreed, hope it does.

Originally Posted by Rushy

I rest my case! It is a different world we live in now (mores the pity)but I would like to think that in some small corner of the country that still happens.

It does.

frankly within arms length seems the safest bloody option from any way you want to view it.

Didnt get up to grabbin a .22 and goin to the dump but hey bows of lancewood with toitoi arows tipped with a nail or as cousins taught us a flattened .303 shell filed to a sharp point accounted for more than a few birds .

can also remember dad shooting possums in his shed .buggers used to come down from bush at back of moana and sit up in the rafters tormenting him as he cut the kindling.his 12g sxs accounted for quite few -maybe thats where my love of jacko shooting came from.

That reminds me -whos up for a good old shanghai-single rubber from old red car tube with a boot tongue as a pouch for ya rock
.hell we had some battles with those.
brother mate and i were up at our bush hut one day ,decided on a bit of fun.me with mates old ww2 tin hat on dives intosome shit in a gulley whilst boys take cover behind a big rimu and it was all on.I had both of em covered with my shots ricocheting off the tree till one of them bowled me arse over elbow with a high velocity rock on the lid.ears rang world spun and it left a dent ,but hey it was a war wound so all was fair.
would i try that today-yup had a shanghai in the garage for quite a while till it disappeared -suspect daughter who may have seen me taking aim at a mangy cat crapping in the wifes flower bed.
my kids wouldnt have clue when it comes to hi jinks like that,
i must admit all the bloody women in our house have out shot me with my.22 at times as i "tutored" them
son is not interested altho at times when he is pissed off with a car hes working on i get "old mancan ya grab ya 12g and put this piece of shit to sleep"
his mates tend to get a little nervous at this stage.wonder why???