Thread: New week, new 'Ultra Vires' Police Action

We have all be discussing the recent 'update' to the Police Arms Code. We noticed the Police attempting to impose new 'requirements' upon firearm owners. Apparently this was merely a 'drafting error'. Most of us cast a dim view on that being accurate.

Looks like the NZ Police have produced yet another 'drafting error'.

Arms Code | New Zealand Police

What legislative change has there been since 2013, that affects mail order purchases? (hint:none)

So purchasing an endorsed firearm now requires a s43a Police Order Form too? Really? Um no...
43A Mail order sale of firearm or ammunition

(1) Every person commits an offence and is liable on conviction to a fine not exceeding $1,000 who sells by mail order a firearm or any ammunition for a firearm or restricted weapon otherwise than pursuant to a written order—
(a) signed by the purchaser; and
(b) bearing an endorsement signed by a member of the Police and stating that the member of the Police—
(i) has inspected the purchaser’s firearms licence; and
(ii) is satisfied that the purchaser is a fit and proper person to purchase that firearm or ammunition.

(2) Nothing in this section applies in relation to—
(a) any pistol, restricted weapon, or military style semi-automatic firearm; or
(b) any ammunition for a firearm to which paragraph (a) or paragraph (b) or paragraph (c) of section 22(1) applies.

The law explicitly states that you do not need a s43a Police Order Form for endorsed firearms, as it is already covered by the permit to procure system of s35.

It's bad enough when the Police make up their own 'requirements', its another matter entirely when they attempt to overrule the actual law.

The list just keeps getting longer... There's certainly no lack of evidence of their callous disregard for the law and due process should they ever be challenged in court.

The National Govt gives a twat about firearms holders rights.FFS the looney toon Smith dude believes lowering water quality standards improves them.Most MP's are from the highly urbanised areas and do not understand what a gun is unless they can drum up votes by creating hysteria about lawlessness. The majority of illegal deaths in NZ do not come from A cat or E cat firearms; in fact they are extremely rare.The difficulty is that the police never provide proof of their assertions. Simply moronic drivel that the media reproduce which is usually reprinting police handouts.

Originally Posted by TeRei

The National Govt gives a twat about firearms holders rights.FFS the looney toon Smith dude believes lowering water quality standards improves them.Most MP's are from the highly urbanised areas and do not understand what a gun is unless they can drum up votes by creating hysteria about lawlessness. The majority of illegal deaths in NZ do not come from A cat or E cat firearms; in fact they are extremely rare.The difficulty is that the police never provide proof of their assertions. Simply moronic drivel that the media reproduce which is usually reprinting police handouts.

The problem is the police just lie. To the politicians and the public because they have some sort of hysteria about lawful owners. I do not trust or have any faith in the nz police, as a result of their recent actions.

Originally Posted by Danger Mouse

The problem is the police just lie. To the politicians and the public because they have some sort of hysteria about lawful owners. I do not trust or have any faith in the nz police, as a result of their recent actions.

Have you made a complaint to anyone who can do anything about it?

Sounds like to make it so slow people wont even bother.

LAFAO's have little trust in the ability of the police to administer the arms act. I say it's time it's taken from them and a new entity is made to do so.

"Anecdotal evidence" is that Police overseas recruiting a number of years ago has now seen many of these ex UK bobbies rise up the ranks to senior NZ police positions.
They now see fit to bring UK gun laws here and seem intent on manufacturing reasons to do so.

Source: https://www.facebook.com/firearmownersunitednz/

Police are now reclassifying all imported AR15's as MSSA's.

Police have once again overreached their authority. As of today, dealers now need to apply for an E cat import permit to bring in A Category AR15's. This effectively allows police to apply the special reason requirement to all AR imports. If police don't think you have a need for an A cat AR15 then they will decline your application.

Police are attempting to declare guns which are not, by definition MSSA's, as MSSA's. We suspect this is a precursor to declaring all AR15's as MSSA's utilizing Polices power to create their own laws with an Order In Council. Paula Bennett once again the police are running amok under your watch, inventing law through groundless policy. We recently saw this with the Arms Code 2017. Now you are allowing police to redefine a type of gun.

Stuart Nash MP you have talked to FOUNZ about removing police's ability to make law at will with an Order in Council. We suggest they may not be far off, again attempting to subvert the parliamentary law making process. It might be time for opposition parties to stand up to the police state we are descending into.

Ron Mark - NZ First MP, Richard Prosser MP - New Zealand First List MP, as per your policy, we need to remove police from administering the Arms Act. They are incompetent. They are now a law unto themselves.

Originally Posted by Ryan

Source: https://www.facebook.com/firearmownersunitednz/

Police are now reclassifying all imported AR15's as MSSA's.

Police have once again overreached their authority. As of today, dealers now need to apply for an E cat import permit to bring in A Category AR15's. This effectively allows police to apply the special reason requirement to all AR imports. If police don't think you have a need for an A cat AR15 then they will decline your application.

Police are attempting to declare guns which are not, by definition MSSA's, as MSSA's. We suspect this is a precursor to declaring all AR15's as MSSA's utilizing Polices power to create their own laws with an Order In Council. Paula Bennett once again the police are running amok under your watch, inventing law through groundless policy. We recently saw this with the Arms Code 2017. Now you are allowing police to redefine a type of gun.

Stuart Nash MP you have talked to FOUNZ about removing police's ability to make law at will with an Order in Council. We suggest they may not be far off, again attempting to subvert the parliamentary law making process. It might be time for opposition parties to stand up to the police state we are descending into.

Ron Mark - NZ First MP, Richard Prosser MP - New Zealand First List MP, as per your policy, we need to remove police from administering the Arms Act. They are incompetent. They are now a law unto themselves.

Isn't that exactly why the cops wanted that new section put into the Arms Act?

Putting a section into law and then using that section? Blind Freddie could have seen that coming?

Originally Posted by systolic

Isn't that exactly why the cops wanted that new section put into the Arms Act?

Putting a section into law and then using that section? Blind Freddie could have seen that coming?

Originally Posted by Ryan

Source: https://www.facebook.com/firearmownersunitednz/

Police are now reclassifying all imported AR15's as MSSA's.

Police have once again overreached their authority. As of today, dealers now need to apply for an E cat import permit to bring in A Category AR15's. This effectively allows police to apply the special reason requirement to all AR imports. If police don't think you have a need for an A cat AR15 then they will decline your application.

Police are attempting to declare guns which are not, by definition MSSA's, as MSSA's. We suspect this is a precursor to declaring all AR15's as MSSA's utilizing Polices power to create their own laws with an Order In Council. Paula Bennett once again the police are running amok under your watch, inventing law through groundless policy. We recently saw this with the Arms Code 2017. Now you are allowing police to redefine a type of gun.

Stuart Nash MP you have talked to FOUNZ about removing police's ability to make law at will with an Order in Council. We suggest they may not be far off, again attempting to subvert the parliamentary law making process. It might be time for opposition parties to stand up to the police state we are descending into.

Ron Mark - NZ First MP, Richard Prosser MP - New Zealand First List MP, as per your policy, we need to remove police from administering the Arms Act. They are incompetent. They are now a law unto themselves.

Letter to the MPs

Hello Paula Bennett

Once again the police are running amok under your watch, inventing law through groundless policy. We recently saw this with the Arms Code 2017. Now you are allowing police to redefine a type of gun.

I have been made aware of a policy change by the New Zealand Police Head Quarters (as detailed in the link below) defining ALL AR type rifles as E cat when importing. Even if they are Not MSSA (E cat) they are being defined as such. I cannot find anywhere in the arms act, any mention of Police being able to reclassify an A cat firearm as E cat when it does not have ANY E cat features. This means the Police are acting outside their mandate of upholding the law and are attempting to write it. (again!!!) They want the respect of the public yet time and time again, they step forward and march us towards a state where the Police write the law.

https://m.facebook.com/firearmowners...id=18&__tn__=C

Police are now reclassifying all imported AR15's as MSSA's
Police have once again overreached their authority. As of today, dealers now need to apply for an E cat import permit to bring in A Category AR15's.
This effectively allows police to apply the special reason requirement to all AR imports. If police don't think you have a need for an A cat AR15 then they will decline your application.
Police are attempting to declare guns which are not, by definition MSSA's, as MSSA's.
We suspect this is a precursor to declaring all AR15's as MSSA's utilizing Polices power to create their own laws with an Order In Council.

With regards to this policy change I have a simple question:

It appears that those in charge of initiating these policies have so little respect for the law they are charged to uphold, that they are prepared to write and enforce their own versions of the law beyond what is legally allowed. If they no longer have respect for the law, does this also mean they are no longer fit for the position they are employed in as they no longer law abiding people? If so I would ask that you seek their resignation if they continue to try enforce laws that have not been passed into legislation?

With an election fast approaching, it seems the Police are doing everything they can to undermine our government.

Thank you for your time
Me (Name changed)

So they are just going ahead and doing it law change or not.

Originally Posted by 300CALMAN

So they are just going ahead and doing it law change or not.

The law was changed about three or four years ago. I'm suprised it's taken them this long to start using it.

Originally Posted by systolic

The law was changed about three or four years ago. I'm suprised it's taken them this long to start using it.

They haven't used it though. No order in council has passed regarding this. They are just making it up themselves, business as usual.