Thread: not again

There seems to be a theme here that what ever happened is justifiable or was inevitable. Really??
As an ordinary citizen and a lawful gun owner that notion sickens me.

Originally Posted by Tahr

There seems to be a theme here that what ever happened is justifiable or was inevitable. Really??
As an ordinary citizen and a lawful gun owner that notion sickens me.

My take on this for what it's worth. And I'll be clear that my opinion can change as more info is made available.

Ive watched the piece on this guy and his pigs from 2018 and its clear there has been a long standing issue and that members of the public were helping and looking after him.
That the poaching has and was considered to be almost a jail sentence for him it was so extreme.

Without making a comment on what's gone on in the last days. I feel there is a failure in community policing in the area that has allowed a well know situation to escalate too this point.

Originally Posted by Tahr

There seems to be a theme here that what ever happened is justifiable or was inevitable. Really??
As an ordinary citizen and a lawful gun owner that notion sickens me.

"All the pheasants ever bred won't repay one man dead" . . . Not an exact parallel but no animal is worth 3 lives lost/ruined.

Hunters/Firearms owners have a special duty to understand the value of life versus property (even livestock)

Originally Posted by Tentman

"All the pheasants ever bred won't repay one man dead" . . . Not an exact parallel but no animal is worth 3 lives lost/ruined.

Hunters/Firearms owners have a special duty to understand the value of life versus property (even livestock)

I understand and agree with what you are saying.

I also know that this tragic event didn't happen in isolation. There is a significant back story to it.

Further to that and without knowing all the details, regardless as to whether they are taking rabbits, pheasants or deer and pigs. Strangers carrying guns on private property without permission is a dangerous and frightening event.

I have enormous sympathy for those who have to deal with that on an isolated or semi regular basis

Originally Posted by Tahr

There seems to be a theme here that what ever happened is justifiable or was inevitable. Really??
As an ordinary citizen and a lawful gun owner that notion sickens me.

Well.

If you decide to enter someone's property with intent to steal,then what follows may not be predictable or pleasant

Those pigs were not asking to be stolen,some community members don't seem to understand laws,now those community members were dealt to illegaly .

Had the boundaries been respected, none of this would have happened.

As an ordinary citizen and firearms owner you must also understand that?

Originally Posted by norsk

Well.

If you decide to enter someone's property with intent to steal,then what follows may not be predictable or pleasant

Those pigs were not asking to be stolen,some community members don't seem to understand laws,now those community members were dealt to illegaly .

Had the boundaries been respected, none of this would have happened.

As an ordinary citizen and firearms owner you must also understand that?

What I understand is that the response must be justified and proportional to the severity of the breach. Legally and I think morally. It may not have happened if there had not been the breach, but the ends was a sickening over-reach perpetrated by a gun owner.

Originally Posted by Tahr

What I understand is that the response must be justified and proportional to the severity of the breach. Legally and I think morally. It may not have happened if there had not been the breach, but the ends was a sickening over-reach perpetrated by a gun owner.

Those two might have been shot with their own firearm for all we know.

Originally Posted by Tahr

What I understand is that the response must be justified and proportional to the severity of the breach. Legally and I think morally. It may not have happened if there had not been the breach, but the ends was a sickening over-reach perpetrated by a gun owner.

Speculating a lot there, until the details come out we just don't know. There sounds to have been a history of intimidation and threatening/violence towards the landowner, which changes the dynamic on safety and expectation. Still not justified if there was intent, but we don't know if the landowner stumbled over the two there without permission while carrying a firearm for other purposes and the situation developed or some other set of circumstances. I do agree it does not look good in general terms from what the media reported, but I'm not sure that the description there is at this point justified with how little has been reported so far.

Originally Posted by No.3

Speculating a lot there, until the details come out we just don't know. There sounds to have been a history of intimidation and threatening/violence towards the landowner, which changes the dynamic on safety and expectation. Still not justified if there was intent, but we don't know if the landowner stumbled over the two there without permission while carrying a firearm for other purposes and the situation developed or some other set of circumstances. I do agree it does not look good in general terms from what the media reported, but I'm not sure that the description there is at this point justified with how little has been reported so far.

My angst is that a theme here (on the forum) is that the justification or the inevitability of the shooting arises from the pre history, property rights and protecting the animals. Regardless of the what actually happened the only justification can be that he feared for own life. Whether or not that is what happened is immaterial to the "someone had it coming" thinking from some gun owners on here.

Originally Posted by Tahr

My angst is that a theme here (on the forum) is that the justification or the inevitability of the shooting arises from the pre history, property rights and protecting the animals. Regardless of the what actually happened the only justification can be that he feared for own life. Whether or not that is what happened is immaterial to the "someone had it coming" thinking from some gun owners on here.

I think that you are correct in holding some angst around the thinking that it was justified. However I feel that it was inevitable, sooner or later, given the growing number of miscreants and the corresponding feeling of helplessness in the population who are being victimised. I hope that the law makers and enforcers see the difference between those who seek to terrorise and the actions of one individual pushed, possibly over a number of years, beyond his level of tolerance.

Originally Posted by Andygr

I think that you are correct in holding some angst around the thinking that it was justified. However I feel that it was inevitable, sooner or later, given the growing number of miscreants and the corresponding feeling of helplessness in the population who are being victimised. I hope that the law makers and enforcers see the difference between those who seek to terrorise and the actions of one individual pushed, possibly over a number of years, beyond his level of tolerance.

Personally I haven't seen much thought that they had it coming, so to speak. What I have seen, not just on here, but on most platforms and not relegated to hunting groups either, Is a recognition that its horrible what's happened whilst maintaining sympathy and a high level of support for the farmer.

When you say it was inevitable, I kind of think- well, Its doesn't take a crystal ball to see this was a potential outcome, and with that, it was preventable. Society is not great. Probably exceedingly hopeless, in recognising when the man alone, needs help. In this case it seems locals were helping him with community, companionship and food etc. And it seems he's held in general high regard. But the authorities should have made it clear that targeting him and his lifestyle was a no no! Police presence at odd times. checking firearms licences and a few tough words and cautions. Maybe arrests if appropriate. Might well have gone along way too making Him feel listened too, more comfortable, and less likely to acting out himself.

Underlined to recognise this part is presumption, and My opinion on this might change if more info comes to light.

Why do I say this? Well in short my father was once a senior police officer. He became a farmer when, Ironically, His advocacy for effective rural support initiatives made his position untenable with the govt of the day.

But when we first moved too the country from Wellington, and into a community with relatively high but normal crime for the time, he showed us that by getting out and showing interest in and preventing the small things, you prevented the big issues from occurring.
Simply just not turning a blind eye to the car stopped down the road, but driving down and asking what was up? Can we help you? Jumping in the car at 2 am when the dogs started barking and going for a drive with the spotlight. Showing up too support neighbours when they were uncomfortable in addressing someone found on their place etc. Not leaving them alone with their fears.
Within 2 years we and our neighbours stopped having problems. But when we decided to leave, putting ourselves in uncomfortable positions became not worth the effort. it became noticeable the effect within our last weeks when we realised that suddenly the local school grounds were being used for dealing drugs on weekends. That wouldn't have happened if we still cared.

Originally Posted by Tahr

My angst is that a theme here (on the forum) is that the justification or the inevitability of the shooting arises from the pre history, property rights and protecting the animals. Regardless of the what actually happened the only justification can be that he feared for own life. Whether or not that is what happened is immaterial to the "someone had it coming" thinking from some gun owners on here.

Yep. That is all correct too...

Thanks for whoever put up the mini-documentary

Just a sad sad situation

Why the fuck can't people leave a harmless bloke alone?

Originally Posted by 308

Thanks for whoever put up the mini-documentary

Just a sad sad situation

Why the fuck can't people leave a harmless bloke alone?

too lazy to chase after an actual wild pig