Thread: not again

Originally Posted by Tahr

There seems to be a theme here that what ever happened is justifiable or was inevitable. Really??
As an ordinary citizen and a lawful gun owner that notion sickens me.

My take on this for what it's worth. And I'll be clear that my opinion can change as more info is made available.

Ive watched the piece on this guy and his pigs from 2018 and its clear there has been a long standing issue and that members of the public were helping and looking after him.
That the poaching has and was considered to be almost a jail sentence for him it was so extreme.

Without making a comment on what's gone on in the last days. I feel there is a failure in community policing in the area that has allowed a well know situation to escalate too this point.

The local riff raff KNOW to leave his pigs alone...I asked one of them who is very near n dear to me...my heart was in mouth when I saw the news as thought I may have funeral to organise. As said earlier the deceased was someone's son so no up side to this.

Originally Posted by Tahr

There seems to be a theme here that what ever happened is justifiable or was inevitable. Really??
As an ordinary citizen and a lawful gun owner that notion sickens me.

"All the pheasants ever bred won't repay one man dead" . . . Not an exact parallel but no animal is worth 3 lives lost/ruined.

Hunters/Firearms owners have a special duty to understand the value of life versus property (even livestock)

Originally Posted by Tentman

"All the pheasants ever bred won't repay one man dead" . . . Not an exact parallel but no animal is worth 3 lives lost/ruined.

Hunters/Firearms owners have a special duty to understand the value of life versus property (even livestock)

I understand and agree with what you are saying.

I also know that this tragic event didn't happen in isolation. There is a significant back story to it.

Further to that and without knowing all the details, regardless as to whether they are taking rabbits, pheasants or deer and pigs. Strangers carrying guns on private property without permission is a dangerous and frightening event.

I have enormous sympathy for those who have to deal with that on an isolated or semi regular basis

Does anybody know for sure if it was stu the pig man who was involved?

This is under name suppression. People shouldn't go identifying who it is.

Originally Posted by whanahuia

This is under name suppression. People shouldn't go identifying who it is.

@whanahuia

Absolutely bang on

"The true measure of a society can be found in how it treats it's most vulnerable members." Is a quote that often springs to mind when I read the news these days. This man (if it is who I believe it to be) seems to be more than a little eccentric and quite likely neuro-diverse, and it is extremely sad that he was pushed to this level of desperation by an element of society that appears to believe that they have the right to do what they want, when they want with impunity. I don't profess to know what the solution is but our society needs to take a serious look at itself.

The thing with this is that it's not just a Coromandel issue - many many rural parts of NZ have a major issue with trespass by people who are chasing animals onto land that they don't have permission to be on. It's becoming more of an issue in the modern age with H&S laws and the consequences for business managers and 'officers' who must take all practical steps to keep people safe. If you have people in areas that they don't have any right to be in the consequences are a little bit concerning. I am not aware of any test case on this yet, and a lot of people are wary of being the first...

Not something that should have been let to get to the point where it ended up in a fatality - on the other hand what can be done? As far as I'm aware even CCTV footage isn't enough to secure a conviction of trespass in a situation like this, so a landowner is forced to confront trespassers to do anything about it. It's a stupid situation and asking for trouble, as if you want the problem to stop as the landowner you really don't have any choice but to confront people who you know are armed in some form as they are dealing with large animals. Something really needs to change to have more of a deterrent to stop idiots from trespassing in the first place so it doesn't become the 'accepted normal' - and 'nah it's OK bro'.

On the money there No3 - esp your second paragraph. unfortunately i have quite a resume in that field and i want out of that scene, particularly after the last nose to nose where the poacher was on P or something. I think a lot of people dont realise how hostile some of these types can be, but you have no choice but to confront them. I wont go into (the many) details on a public forum but i feel real sorry that old guy being put into that situation. I think i need to make an appointment with our MP

The H&S issue regarding trespassers does not wash. The Act is quite clear that if someone is on property illegally then the owner/manager/'Officer' is not responsible for their safety.

It is, however, a massive issue for the safety of yourself and others there legally.

Originally Posted by Tahr

There seems to be a theme here that what ever happened is justifiable or was inevitable. Really??
As an ordinary citizen and a lawful gun owner that notion sickens me.

Well.

If you decide to enter someone's property with intent to steal,then what follows may not be predictable or pleasant

Those pigs were not asking to be stolen,some community members don't seem to understand laws,now those community members were dealt to illegaly .

Had the boundaries been respected, none of this would have happened.

As an ordinary citizen and firearms owner you must also understand that?

Originally Posted by norsk

Well.

If you decide to enter someone's property with intent to steal,then what follows may not be predictable or pleasant

Those pigs were not asking to be stolen,some community members don't seem to understand laws,now those community members were dealt to illegaly .

Had the boundaries been respected, none of this would have happened.

As an ordinary citizen and firearms owner you must also understand that?

What I understand is that the response must be justified and proportional to the severity of the breach. Legally and I think morally. It may not have happened if there had not been the breach, but the ends was a sickening over-reach perpetrated by a gun owner.

just to point out we dont know were the pigs were taken (or have i missed part of the story), it's quite possible they were run down on the road, then grabbed and tossed on the ute for processing. i know i have had to slow to avoid them in that spot.
Z

Originally Posted by Tahr

What I understand is that the response must be justified and proportional to the severity of the breach. Legally and I think morally. It may not have happened if there had not been the breach, but the ends was a sickening over-reach perpetrated by a gun owner.

Those two might have been shot with their own firearm for all we know.