Thread: NZ Police has chilling problem: they're Killing, More and More

I was of the understanding the majority of officers in the UK do not carry firearms and I have seen more and more of our frontline staff armed. As for training there should not be a fixed budget for our police training all staff should be trained to the best possible standard not to a standard that $$$ allow
Or maybe per capita we just have more nutjobs who need to be shot?

Originally Posted by 6x47

As for the amount of "training" cops get with firearms, my son tells me it's pretty pathetic. Budgets dictate they fire bugger all live rounds per year...

I've heard that too, half a day on the range each year to stay 'up to standard' - was told 2 mags through an AR and 2 mags through a Glock.

Better than nothing I guess but that really isn't much if they're expected to carry them full time (which the unionists are pushing for, but cops I've talked to aren't convinced its a good idea) and use them under pressure with risk of collateral damage etc.

Originally Posted by GravelBen

I've heard that too, half a day on the range each year to stay 'up to standard' - was told 2 mags through an AR and 2 mags through a Glock.

Better than nothing I guess but that really isn't much if they're expected to carry them full time (which the unionists are pushing for, but cops I've talked to aren't convinced its a good idea) and use them under pressure with risk of collateral damage etc.

Funny because the pistol club I belong to is frequently visited by the police.

Sure it's not the local AOS? The main grunts aren't there very often

Originally Posted by 6x47

Sure it's not the local AOS? The main grunts aren't there very often

if it is purely the AOS then we are in for trouble because they suck.

Couldn't disagree more with the MSM article. Almost all of the quoted shootings - with the notable exception of the courier driver, which I've discussed already - appear to me to be justified.

I've had a few dealings with NZP and in my experience, I've found them to be polite, tolerant and all round treated me respectfully. In South Africa, the approach is a bit more belligerent, delivered with absolute clarity.

To me the two police approaches speak volumes of the state of society. One is based on a legitimate fear that the member's life is routinely in danger and use of deadly force is commonplace. The other, the opposite is true and the use of deadly force is uncommon and great restraint is used until it becomes clear that no viable alternative exists.

Originally Posted by Paddy79

As for training there should not be a fixed budget for our police training all staff should be trained to the best possible standard not to a standard that $$$ allow....

The best possible standard is surely the standard that $$$ allow.

And then there is the fact of diminishing returns: doubling a training budget, even if it makes the training "twice as good", will not make a trainee turn out "twice as good". Selection is also a limitation with a limited pool of suitable applicants but you are not going to get a sea of psychology graduates applying any time (not saying that, finger on the trigger, such would do any better).

Nope, problemp starts and ends with 'P'.

What Ryan said.....

Quote.....To me the two police approaches speak volumes of the state of society. One is based on a legitimate fear that the member's life is routinely in danger and use of deadly force is commonplace. The other, the opposite is true and the use of deadly force is uncommon and great restraint is used until it becomes clear that no viable alternative exists.

With the amount of new "fixed" speed cameras going in, money won't be an excuse! Nice one down the matamata side of the Kaimais, just before the Turn off to Putaruru, covering the passing lane going up. FFS. Lot more in Auck as well?

Originally Posted by Ryan

.....

I've had a few dealings with NZP and in my experience, I've found them to be polite, tolerant and all round treated me respectfully. In South Africa, the approach is a bit more belligerent, delivered with absolute clarity. ...

My SAfer mate watches the NZ cop programmes there and he couldn't believe the abuse and shenanigans the NZ cops put up with. He said the very least you'd get there is a beating and possibly a bullet for doing the same

Firearm training for cops being inadequate as some say and restricted by budget sucks, I get that. But the two frontline police mates I know help train themselves more by having their firearm license.

This not only enhances their training for work in the field and critical decision making but also gives them a chance to learn off other shooters civilian/LE/military at our club.

So we as shooters who try to encourage others/newbies/kids to participate in the sport and get their FAL, apply the same advice to the police - If you know someone who is a cop and they moan about training etc - Tell them to get their licence.

Originally Posted by Sasquatch

Firearm training for cops being inadequate as some say and restricted by budget sucks, I get that. But the two frontline police mates I know help train themselves more by having their firearm license.

This not only enhances their training for work in the field and critical decision making but also gives them a chance to learn off other shooters civilian/LE/military at our club.

So we as shooters who try to encourage others/newbies/kids to participate in the sport and get their FAL, apply the same advice to the police - If you know someone who is a cop and they moan about training etc - Tell them to get their licence.

I went to school with a lot of my local cops.
One is the local AOS trainer and was up the club running a new cop to town thru his annual qual. I said I would leave them to it went to use another range.

They come down to say they were leaving after a while and seen my rig and gun and took an interest.
I said to have a shot and they both had a go. They enjoyed it and I asked why if they are so keen why don't they join the club as they would be welcome and valuable members.

They liked the idea but I got the impression from other things they said that it would be frowned upon behind the scenes. I could be wrong.

I know there are a few military guys that are Pnz members and shooting a fair bit from other clubs but I don't know of many police that are active shooters.






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Having read the postings and thought at length about contributions, I offer these observations: Back in the day I was AOS and the training then was minimal. In hindsight it was probably to do with money. I have been in the situation where I was close to discharging my weapon but thankfully did not. Couple of scenarios for you (a) dude walking down the street firing .303; close enough to hear spent brass pinging on road and (b) being ordered to enter and search a darkened house when alleged offender may have still been present. (Think old farm cottage with narrow hallway and scrim linings). My feelings are that whatever the training, it will never be sufficient to deal with all situations; human nature must ‘top up’ each scenario. Second, I am still very very aware of both the experiences cited (not ptsd but sometimes think about...) so lets think about those men and women who, sometimes lacking adequate training, are out there making quick decisions on society’s behalf. Basically they are damned if they do and damned if they don’t. Finally, view “Bad Blood” the movie about Stan Graham. The young cop who shot him was pilloried by both the community and his colleagues.

Originally Posted by R93

One is the local AOS trainer and was up the club running a new cop to town thru...
...I said to have a shot and they both had a go. They enjoyed it and I asked why if they are so keen why don't they join the club as they would be welcome and valuable members. They liked the idea but I got the impression from other things they said that it would be frowned upon behind the scenes. I could be wrong.

@R93

Maybe an institutional, deeply buried perception within NZ Police, a toxic one at that, that LFAOs are a problem to be managed, and not fraternised with?

Or maybe that it would be that a membership of COLFO, through whatever pistol club membership they were invited to take up, would be too political for a supposedly impartial serving officer?

Originally Posted by Cordite

@R93

Maybe an institutional, deeply buried perception within NZ Police, a toxic one at that, that LFAOs are a problem to be managed, and not fraternised with?

Or maybe that it would be that a membership of COLFO, through whatever pistol club membership they were invited to take up, would be too political for a supposedly impartial serving officer?

Dunno. Both good fellas and seemed keen on doing more shooting.
Hopefully they are not discouraged by policy or unwritten orders.

I got the feeling the would jump all in if they could. Both of them are hunters as well and I know one has his FA licence.

Don't personally see an issue of having more endorsements on it.
We need young keen blood at out club.
Too many cowboy shooters. Not enough other stuff.

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