Thread: NZ Police has chilling problem: they're Killing, More and More

https://interactives.stuff.co.nz/2017/11/under-fire/
A bumped link to Stuff.co.nz article. We the lawful firearms owners of NZ are not the problem.

"New Zealand police have shot more people in the past 10 years than the previous 40. They shoot almost as many as their counterparts in the UK, which has 13 times the population.

Police bosses deny there’s a problem, but former officers, lawyers and families are calling for a radical rethink of how such cases are handled to stem the bloodshed.

Tony Wall and Catrin Owen report."
https://interactives.stuff.co.nz/2017/11/under-fire/

well when a town the size of christchurch has seizures of a single shipment of meth of 50kg i can assure you where the problem arises.
even worse the price of this horrid drug is 1/2 of what it was 2 years ago so expect big problems

So, Less methamphetamine in the UK? No doubt, by far.

Less legal firearms in the UK? Probably, at least per capita.

Less illegal firearms in the UK? Probably not! https://kiwigunblog.wordpress.com/20...to-be-learned/

More jihadis and new-IRAs in the UK? Yes.

I'm not that convinced the above explains the differences in kill rates of the two sets of cops. NZ not comparing well.

I reckon we're just breeding more and more fuckwits that put themselves in situations where they end up getting shot

And a couple more suicide by police.
There's a lot less respect, fear and compliance with police these days which might put them in more situations where they aren't left with many options.

Also people need to not make this about the firearms vs the police crap and vilifying the foot soldiers. It's the ones at the top of the tree after your firearms, not so much the ones just trying to up hold the law.

Be curious to know what the figures are for the number of police in the UK that show up to a call out vs NZ, I'm betting there's a lot more with a lot more in close proximity to back up as well over there. Making a sow of force and the ability to overcome without resorting to shooting a lot more likely

Originally Posted by Ryan_Songhurst

I reckon we're just breeding more and more fuckwits that put themselves in situations where they end up getting shot

I am kind of inclined to tentatively agree with you.

At the very least there's more of a gangster rap fuck the police amongst certain demographics than what my parents had.

Originally Posted by Nibblet

And a couple more suicide by police.
There's a lot less respect, fear and compliance with police these days which might put them in more situations where they aren't left with many options.

Also people need to not make this about the firearms vs the police crap and vilifying the foot soldiers. It's the ones at the top of the tree after your firearms, not so much the ones just trying to up hold the law.

Be curious to know what the figures are for the number of police in the UK that show up to a call out vs NZ, I'm betting there's a lot more with a lot more in close proximity to back up as well over there. Making a sow of force and the ability to overcome without resorting to shooting a lot more likely

My uncle wrote the legal guidelines after Aramoana about when a cop is allowed to kill or not and I was talking to him about it yesterday. He said that the cops I'm general have very poor firearms training and experience. And even after all these years they are not so good at de escalating without resorting to arms.

But then he also said that he wouldn't be around multiple times if he wasn't carrying a pistol at all times.

So I think it's a mix of if all you have is a hammer every problem is a nail and poor training results in what we have.

We also have the special tactics group which is our anti terrorism force who have a very lax rules of engagement. Essentially when they're mobilized they're mobilized to kill someone as quickly as possible.

Originally Posted by Russian 22.

I am kind of inclined to tentatively agree with you.

At the very least there's more of a gangster rap fuck the police amongst certain demographics than what my parents had.



My uncle wrote the legal guidelines after Aramoana about when a cop is allowed to kill or not and I was talking to him about it yesterday. He said that the cops I'm general have very poor firearms training and experience. And even after all these years they are not so good at de escalating without resorting to arms.

But then he also said that he wouldn't be around multiple times if he wasn't carrying a pistol at all times.

So I think it's a mix of if all you have is a hammer every problem is a nail and poor training results in what we have.

We also have the special tactics group which is our anti terrorism force who have a very lax rules of engagement. Essentially when they're mobilized they're mobilized to kill someone as quickly as possible.

Sorry but your uncle is out of touch, I'm guessing he isn't ever out on the frontline or assessing recent cases by speaking to the people involved in the incident. I can tell you through my experience that NZ cops pulling guns on offenders is actually quite rare.

In my experience and knowledge, NZ Police are exceptionally good at using less than lethal options whenever appropriate and deescalating situations, like Scahill said, on average Police get shot at by offenders twice as often as Police shoot at offenders. You'd be surprised at just how rarely TASERs and Batons get used.

Your idea of the deployment and use of the STG is way off the mark. They are governed by the same laws as every other Police Officer so their rules of engagement are exactly the same.

Originally Posted by Savage1

Sorry but your uncle is out of touch, I'm guessing he isn't ever out on the frontline or assessing recent cases by speaking to the people involved in the incident. I can tell you through my experience that NZ cops pulling guns on offenders is actually quite rare.

In my experience and knowledge, NZ Police are exceptionally good at using less than lethal options whenever appropriate and deescalating situations, like Scahill said, on average Police get shot at by offenders twice as often as Police shoot at offenders. You'd be surprised at just how rarely TASERs and Batons get used.

Your idea of the deployment and use of the STG is way off the mark. They are governed by the same laws as every other Police Officer so their rules of engagement are exactly the same.

I was with you until you mentioned Carhill!

Originally Posted by Maca49

I was with you until you mentioned Carhill!

Chris SCAHILL is a Superintendant with the NZ Police, not CAHILL who is the NZP Association president.

Originally Posted by Savage1

Sorry but your uncle is out of touch, I'm guessing he isn't ever out on the frontline or assessing recent cases by speaking to the people involved in the incident. I can tell you through my experience that NZ cops pulling guns on offenders is actually quite rare.

In my experience and knowledge, NZ Police are exceptionally good at using less than lethal options whenever appropriate and deescalating situations, like Scahill said, on average Police get shot at by offenders twice as often as Police shoot at offenders. You'd be surprised at just how rarely TASERs and Batons get used.

Your idea of the deployment and use of the STG is way off the mark. They are governed by the same laws as every other Police Officer so their rules of engagement are exactly the same.

You are probably correct. It's a long time since he's been a cop. I still stand by what I said as he is a trustworthy bloke.

Interesting observation in the depths of the article, making firearms more available makes police more likely to use them rather than other methods of defusing a situation, and the head of the pol assn wants them to be an everyday carry?

Originally Posted by Marty Henry

Interesting observation in the depths of the article, making firearms more available makes police more likely to use them rather than other methods of defusing a situation, and the head of the pol assn wants them to be an everyday carry?

That wasn't an observation, it's an opinion, and in my experience that opinion is incorrect.

Shoot few more, there's plenty deserving, and it cuts down the re-offending.

I feel for the poor coppers forced into shooting these shitbags, it's something that is going to stay in your head for life.

Originally Posted by Tommy

I feel for the poor coppers forced into shooting these shitbags, it's something that is going to stay in your head for life.

yeah, but would a shitbag really make you sad?