Thread: OH FFS

From experience, NZ will never have the gun problems the US has ( because that's what we're talking about here, the US' gun problems, not the culture), because NZ has basic social services, a high standard of living and social standards. The average level of education and world awareness is atrocious, poverty is rampant through all parts of the country, and there are just plain too many people. I'm really not at all joking or exaggerating. The current level of polarization there (IE ban everything vs from my cold dead hands) comes from their politics that makes everything a battle of extremes where surrender, loss, or giving ground is impossible as the other side will push their agenda to the limit the minute they get the chance. It seems there's still something of a community feeling in NZ that puts the brakes on that.

Nothing wrong with the ad - I'm sure it'll ruffle some snowflakes' feathers, but if that's the worst thing they experience in their day to day life then things are pretty good on the whole.

Originally Posted by canross

From experience, NZ will never have the gun problems the US has ( because that's what we're talking about here, the US' gun problems, not the culture), because NZ has basic social services, a high standard of living and social standards. The average level of education and world awareness is atrocious, poverty is rampant through all parts of the country, and there are just plain too many people. I'm really not at all joking or exaggerating. The current level of polarization there (IE ban everything vs from my cold dead hands) comes from their politics that makes everything a battle of extremes where surrender, loss, or giving ground is impossible as the other side will push their agenda to the limit the minute they get the chance. It seems there's still something of a community feeling in NZ that puts the brakes on that.

Nothing wrong with the ad - I'm sure it'll ruffle some snowflakes' feathers, but if that's the worst thing they experience in their day to day life then things are pretty good on the whole.

Agreed on both points. I would add that what it will take to fix the US problems will be an attitude shift not a political one. I will use drink driving here in NZ as an example. Driving drunk was illegal in the 70s and is illegal now. But the attitude (social context) has changed significantly. In the 70s if you got caught DUI then you were considered unlucky. The cop was out to get you and the only person at risk was the person driving drunk. Now the attitude is one of WTF were you thinking? You absolute idiot? Thank god they got you off the road before you killed someone. Until the attitude towards firearms changes there at a social level, nothing will happen. Social changes will force commercial changes without the law being involved. Shops will simply stop selling what people will not buy. If people decide to not go in to a shop because it sells a particular item, then that shop has to decide if stocking that item is worth losing these customers. One or two people making this decision will not effect a change, but a much larger percentage of lost customers will.

Originally Posted by timattalon

Agreed on both points. I would add that what it will take to fix the US problems will be an attitude shift not a political one. I will use drink driving here in NZ as an example. Driving drunk was illegal in the 70s and is illegal now. But the attitude (social context) has changed significantly. In the 70s if you got caught DUI then you were considered unlucky. The cop was out to get you and the only person at risk was the person driving drunk. Now the attitude is one of WTF were you thinking? You absolute idiot? Thank god they got you off the road before you killed someone. Until the attitude towards firearms changes there at a social level, nothing will happen. Social changes will force commercial changes without the law being involved. Shops will simply stop selling what people will not buy. If people decide to not go in to a shop because it sells a particular item, then that shop has to decide if stocking that item is worth losing these customers. One or two people making this decision will not effect a change, but a much larger percentage of lost customers will.

Social attitudes can change things , for sure, but the bottle shops and bars still make a good living in spit of

Originally Posted by canross

The current level of polarization there (IE ban everything vs from my cold dead hands) comes from their politics that makes everything a battle of extremes where surrender, loss, or giving ground is impossible as the other side will push their agenda to the limit the minute they get the chance.

This reminds me of the old adage,
"The opposite of one bad idea, is usually the opposite bad idea."