https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/cri...ep-them-active
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If more people / children are introduced to firearms in a safe manner then this must be a good thing.
Not sure about the photographer taking a photo from the target looking towards shooters.....
I agree we dont need an American gun culture,NZ has its own proud gun culture and history.
Yeah I saw that too, more anti gun crap from stuff. Nz will never have an "American gun culture" due to a fairly robust licensing system and no first amendment etc
Second.Quote:
Originally Posted by mawzer308
But yes, more respect to the fact you must maintain fit and proper vs the RIGHT.
Tabloids got to have their click bait though to make their money
I think it could be a good thing if taught responsibly. Risk assessment is not taught these days. Kids are wrapped in cotton wool, but are given a high powered car when they turn 16 or 18.
Buy the slug rifle, teach them, supervision is key. Buy them a pocket knife, teach them risk assessment. New zealand was built by no.8 wire, 303's, and a can do attitude( well, south zealand anyway).
Wringing of hands and worrying them to death doesn't work.
Stop our kids turning into hippy frontbums now.
I feel for the guy who lost his son to an air rifle shot, but also have to wonder if closer supervision and more education would have prevented it.
Plenty of youngster are killed and injured on the roads each year, but I don't hear the parents demanding that we ban motor vehicles.
There was way more to that case than an "accidental discharge".Quote:
Originally Posted by Pengy
Like my neighbour: Went off the deep end at me when I offered (to the husband) to take them to the small bore range. Kids were like 8 and 10, would have loved it. Nope, she lost her shit in a big way. Same stupid bint drives her two kids around on bald-as-fuck tyres on both their vehicles (a Captiva and a Passat), for well over a year. The Captiva was so bad you couldn't see a tread pattern anymore. But no, I'm the devil. Unreal.Quote:
Plenty of youngster are killed and injured on the roads each year, but I don't hear the parents demanding that we ban motor vehicles.
Comments disabled on article... wonder why
Not a David Tipple fan at all, but yes what a good idea, see the link further down the page about kindy kids having to sit their firearms license before playing with pretend guns. love it, its all about education.
My thoughts exactly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pengy
People get run over on the roads, they teach road safety at school. People drown in rivers and ocean, they teach water safety and swimming. None of these things are asked to be banned. Firearms use used to be taught in schools.
People have been killed here with axes, hammers and baseball bats, yet trees, buildings and baseball have not been asked to be banned. There have been a number of deaths with trees falling on people in the logging industry and log cartage accidents where safety awareness in now being taken more seriously. Why is it that firearms, where comparatively there are few deaths, are there calls for so many more restrictions?
Well we used to run-a-round with air rifles as kids in the seventies, ok they were pretty weak in comparasion to modern ones but still capable of taking an eye out or unluckey myna bird. Good on Tipple for trying. City folk are afraid of the bogieman who runs around killing people willy nilly or of firearms in general. Wouldn't it be fun to track down the vocal ranters and tip their skellatons out of the closet.
could it be that "man hit by car" does not sell as many papers as Man Shot" (accidentally or otherwise)Quote:
Originally Posted by gadgetman
All power to Tipple' right arm! There should be more of this in my view. Oh and Tommy, from now on I'll be calling you Li'l Lucifer.
And the argument they keep bringing up that guns are designed to kill is great. So too is the main equipment for baseball, cricket and golf. They are all adaptions of the caveman's favourite tool the club! Hey, golf still uses the term.
Not only is a death by motor vehicle not a big seller for the papers, it is simply something we have come to accept as almost the norm. Very sad :(Quote:
Originally Posted by mikee
What a stupid tart, people like that have no idea. Clearly brain-washed by daytime tv.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tommy
Bingo, they are employed in TV industry ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Sasquatch
Have you guys had a read through the comments at the bottom.
Really interesting most are anti the article and for the education of kids to be trained in the correct use of air guns.
I think that the comment page was disabled because Stuff was coming out look rather sad from there slanted view.
Here's a few.
"Chris Cahill of the Police association has actually been a god-send for licenced, law-abiding gun owners. His position is so extreme, his claims so unfounded, that I haven't seen firearms users so motivated and so well informed in my lifetime.
Take note of the comments, Stuff - vast majority are rational, reasonable and well informed rebuttals of your article. Perhaps you need to check your assumptions and check your privilege especially. You have fallen for misinformation, you have based an article on sensationalism not serious analysis. As you can see, its not hard to get the objective information."
"10 hours ago
nuts2u
There is no need for children to have guns. I don't like the idea and that's that. My opinion and I'm entitled to it, just as those are who disagree.
-14
10 hours ago
Scanman
My 11 year old daughter has been shooting since she turned 7, and has recently joined the local pistol club. She is now on her way to being able to shoot competitively. All this is her doing, she has been the driving force behind her shooting. I support her, firearms are safe when the right training is given in the right environment. She loves shooting and it is just one of her many sports. It has taught her discipline and respect which transfers to many aspects of life."
yes siree as long as we have fairrfax media ,sensationalism and scandal thats what does the selling and a gullible one eyed public love the shit.
of course its got its roots in the product laden tertiary training institutes where thease hack journos are being churned out by the load ,all breathless to infict themselves on someone or something!
the television media just as nauseating-witness the quenn of bile heather DPAs efforts.
Dave tipple -been at it that long any shit tossed at him is like water on a ducks back
I wish I could meet up with these anti gun morons and take them out to a range teach them gun safty and shoot some targets and then see what they think
They'd probably know why you're shooting targets, what did the targets ever do to you, and will the targets families receive counselling.Quote:
Originally Posted by FatLabrador
That c*ck sucking tabloid website IS the definition of fake news.
I've lost count of the number of 'urgent' media queries their fresh out of AUT journo school hacks have sent and then the bints ignore the actual facts we give them when published. Balanced story much?
I’m from Canada. I have a 7 year old and a 4year old. I’ve been in NZ for almost a year. I just an air rifle and I’m teaching my boys to handle it properly and responsibly and to shoot well. I’m very proud of their respect for the weapon and their ability to handle it. They will be supervised closely until they get their own firearms licenses. Hunting and shooting has been a huge part of my life since I was 7!
All to happy to pass it on to my family.
Since being in NZ and now getting my firearms license I’ve found NZ to have a very healthy view of guns for the most part. A proud heritage of hunting and shooting and a reasonable system for acquiring firearms.similar to Canada and yet I would say more reasonable. Not extreme on the controls but not all loose and irresponsible like the USA. I’m glad my boys can grow up in a free and fairly pro sporting culture where firearms are a useful and fun part of life and where the laws enable people to be responsible gun owners without being too restrictive.
I also appreciate that gun owners in NZ that I know are very informed people and active in the political realm. Far too many gun owners in Canada say nothing when misinformed anti gun people do things like this in the media!
This article was reasonably and thoughtfully responded to in the comments. I hope they also write similar letters to the editor at stuff so the media can understand that articles like this one don’t represent the opinions of kiwis the way the media might think!
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Did no-one spot the small shaft of light? A ray of hope, something sane to cling on to in that otherwise insane tabloid storm:
"Police Minister Stuart Nash said the gun seller advocated the safe use of firearms, including air rifles.
"I urge responsible ownership and support anything that promotes gun safety," Nash said. "
@gadgetmanQuote:
Originally Posted by gadgetman
Gun City should perhaps have urged parents to get their kids interested in guns, not for its own sake, but because it is a safer interest than pony riding, rugby, fast or slow cars, motorbikes, mountain bikes, skateboarding, couch fat kid potatoing etc.
One main reason that shooting is much safer is of course that most don't need reminders they easily kill.
actually from the moment youre born youre destined to die.humans creative wee bastards they are ,often suceed in hastening that process .nothing new to see there ,move on. actually ive given all my kids the chance to use firearms under my IMMEDIATE supervision but its not for them -i respect that .the mrs-bugger her outshot me more than once!.
despite it being my thing my kids are always security conscious and i must say more than once have bought along friends who want to become active in firearms or merely seek information.-Im more than happy doing eitherand provided the person/shas a modicum of commonsense alls generally well.
one iturned away ,a constant skullfullof dope and firearms do not mix FINITO
My wife has barely ever seen a gun, let alone held or fired one. I was always told I would NEVER be "allowed" any gun in the house.
I bought an air rifle for some varmint and target shooting and took it out to sight it in this weekend. When she first saw it on the bench she looked at it like it was going to explode spontaneously. After literally 5-10 minutes of showing her how to handle it, how to be safe and responsible with it and after she had fired just a few shots at the target she was different. She was more relaxed, confident and was enjoying herself while handling the rifle with care and respect. 5-10 minutes of knowledge and experience completely changed how she felt about guns.
Knowledge and experience. It can be hard to remain tolerant but remember, a lot of "anti-gun" people haven't had the benefit of that and the best gun owners are the ones who take the time to share theirs.
Like I always say; guns are dangerous, so the people taking care of them have to be safe.
Am i the only one who objects strongly to the Author's use of the word "Weapon"????
The article isn't even a full sentence in when they clearly state their bias. An airgun is not a 'weapon'. It hasn't been considered that since the days of Napoleon.
Anybody who calls an airgun a weapon should forfeit their privilege to own one. Its a tool for a specific need ie culling rabbits near your rural house or perhaps just entertainment at an airgun club.
It would be a crap 'weapon'. Imagine trying to use one for home defense, you'd use your precious 5 seconds to react and run for safety by loading a pellet??? Only piss off the intruder? Get real 'Stuff' author, lose the fantasy that any type of gun is for home defense, least of all an airgun.
So that cop who was murdered with an airgun a few years ago, the airgun wasn't a weapon when it was being used to kill him?Quote:
Originally Posted by Dead is better
That air rifle is actually classified as a firearm and requires a class A FAL.That was a pre-charged Pneumatic (PCP) semi automatic air rifle with 12 shot mag called an FX-Monsoon. These pcp arent even able to be sold on trademe in the air rifle section
"A thing designed or used for inflicting bodily harm or physical damage." - Oxford dictionary.
The word "Weapon" is simply not an accurate description of a sub 12 ftlbs powered break barrel slug gun. Not anymore than a motor vehicle, screwdriver, golf club or marshmellow is.
There's a subtle difference i'm trying to point out that not all guns were designed for this purpose. Like olympic air pistols for example.
Anything on this green earth can be used as a weapon but they cant be called that if they weren't designed for that purpose.
The case @systolic refers to is the reason for the change in the law to recognise PCP's as A-cat - not to take anything away from your argument.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dead is better
Its just an object until somebody actually uses it to inflict injury or harm. You cant just define weapon as : "Anything within arms reach".
The word implies that it more than likely WILL be used in defense or attack.
They aren't weapons. "Stuff" was wrong to imply little kids slug guns are all going to be used to cause harm.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dead is better
"Stuff was wrong" says it all really. Stuff was wrong. Were you really expecting them to try get something right? It should be called Stuff'd. Stuff could not manage to get anything correct if you gave them the correct answer in advance.
Was it classified as a firearm at the time the cop was killed? Or was it still just an airgun that anyone over 18 could buy?Quote:
Originally Posted by Dead is better
It was re-classified after the officer was shot, a muzzel energy requirement has been added to the act.
From experience, NZ will never have the gun problems the US has ( because that's what we're talking about here, the US' gun problems, not the culture), because NZ has basic social services, a high standard of living and social standards. The average level of education and world awareness is atrocious, poverty is rampant through all parts of the country, and there are just plain too many people. I'm really not at all joking or exaggerating. The current level of polarization there (IE ban everything vs from my cold dead hands) comes from their politics that makes everything a battle of extremes where surrender, loss, or giving ground is impossible as the other side will push their agenda to the limit the minute they get the chance. It seems there's still something of a community feeling in NZ that puts the brakes on that.
Nothing wrong with the ad - I'm sure it'll ruffle some snowflakes' feathers, but if that's the worst thing they experience in their day to day life then things are pretty good on the whole.
Agreed on both points. I would add that what it will take to fix the US problems will be an attitude shift not a political one. I will use drink driving here in NZ as an example. Driving drunk was illegal in the 70s and is illegal now. But the attitude (social context) has changed significantly. In the 70s if you got caught DUI then you were considered unlucky. The cop was out to get you and the only person at risk was the person driving drunk. Now the attitude is one of WTF were you thinking? You absolute idiot? Thank god they got you off the road before you killed someone. Until the attitude towards firearms changes there at a social level, nothing will happen. Social changes will force commercial changes without the law being involved. Shops will simply stop selling what people will not buy. If people decide to not go in to a shop because it sells a particular item, then that shop has to decide if stocking that item is worth losing these customers. One or two people making this decision will not effect a change, but a much larger percentage of lost customers will.Quote:
Originally Posted by canross
Quote..”I would add that what it will take to fix the US problems will be an attitude shift not a political one.”
Mate,great point but it will never happen....never say never,yeah right..........I have travelled every state in the contiguous 48,Alaska and it# tributaries.........the difference between what we in Kiwi see as a “privilege”,is what they call a “right”........those concepts are at extreme ends.....
This reminds me of the old adage,Quote:
Originally Posted by canross
"The opposite of one bad idea, is usually the opposite bad idea."