Thread: One up the spout

Yesterday, a bloke I know told me that he now carries his rifle with a round in the chamber but with the sear disengaged; as in, he holds the trigger back during chambering so that the chambered round sits with the firing pin pressing on the primer under spring tension, but not 'cocked'.
This on a Remington and he claims that because the bolt shroud covers ( sort of) the back of the cocking piece this cannot be struck in a fall.

When game is sited and he is ready for a shot, he simply lifts and closes the bolt to 'cock' the action.

He considers this 'safe practice', I consider it possible that if the 'butt' was thumped down on a hard surface the inertia of the shell against the pressure of the mainspring could cause the rifle to fire.

Opinion would suggest this to be unsafe, does anyone know from an engineering / physics perspective whether it is safe or not ?

I have a friend who does the same with an xbolt and i dont like it personally, i use the half cock and 3 position safety but thats probably no better.

The reason for not doing this stems from the old 303 where you could very easily drop the butt firmly and the round would go off.
Personally, all my rounds sit in the mag until I'm in position to pull the trigger. A safety catch is utterly useless to me, and the mates I hunt with do the same. A round in the mag will never injure anyone, or go off unintentionally, but having said that, Ive never tried to ignite a round in a modern firearm by "thumping the butt" with the bolt closed (but not cocked).
Its a very uneasy feeling knowing the guy following you through the scrub has a round up the spout, even if its not cocked

Not a gunsmith / engineering perspective but I would much sooner have a round chambered with the safety on then do that. Or better yet, use a half cock with the safety applied aswell (if said rifle is able to do this).

That would give me the shits.
Either 1/2 closed bolt or Loaded and safety on both ONLY when "action" is imminent. Neither of those if walking behind someone or otherwise not in the front them.

Modern safety's though have come a long way since the old 303/ 1/2 bolt thing.

Originally Posted by mikee

Modern safety's though have come a long way since the old 303/ 1/2 bolt thing.

you would hope......... i had a zastava (modern m98 clone ) with a trigger safety and one day i was showing the missus how to cycle rounds and how different safetys work on different actions , obviously no rounds live being used. i put the safety on and said "watch now i cant pull the trigger" then click as the firing pin hit the dummy round.......... this was a relatively brand new rifle at the time but it wasnt like that at the time of purchase. so after maybe a box of ammo thru it the safety adjustment screw had moved .....kinda lucky i find out the way i did but i do not trust trigger safetys at all

I remember reading in a book somewhere about someone carrying their rifle in this state, closing the bolt on a live round with the firing pin decocked. They were sliding down a bank on their bum with the rifle slung on their shoulder, the back end of the bolt hit a rock from the bank and old mate who was waiting to follow behind ended up getting shot in the stomach.

The fact of it is you can't have a discharge from an chamber is empty. But plenty of people have had a firearm discharge when they thought the safety was on, the safety was on, were checking if it was on, didn't realise the firearm was cocked etc.

Had an ole mate who would always close the bolt on a live round while holding the trigger, think it was a ParkerHale 270.
Tried to tell him its not a good idea ,but he couldn't see the problem. i was always a bit nervous if he was behind me!!

Originally Posted by stagstalker

Not a gunsmith / engineering perspective but I would much sooner have a round chambered with the safety on then do that. Or better yet, use a half cock with the safety applied aswell (if said rifle is able to do this).

I'm the opposite, I would rather the uncocked rifle with one in the chamber than cocked with safety on - but neither unless I have heard or seen an animal.
Any knock that could set off a round in an uncocked rifle is just as likely to knock the safety to "fire".

If I'm on my own with the possibility of a snap shot have 1 up the spout and safety on (usually test it at the start of a trip) if with anyone else empty chamber

"Always point in a safe direction".

"Load only when ready to fire".

Probably a few more things that apply to that, but placing a spring powered pin against a primer like that is relying on a few things to not set that primer off. One of those is the hardness of the primer cup, and we know some are harder than others. It can take surprisingly little to set off a primer, other times you need to really put some effort in so for my comfort I would not be reducing my safety margin in this way. If it did go wrong the fact that you've deliberately done that (closed bolt, decocked on a live round) puts you in a position where you have to explain what alternative safety measures you've used and that's not that easy when the top two rules that you would have had to have memorised to pass the licence knowledge test have been ignored.

Hunting (even on my own) I do the 1/2 open bolt trick.
See an animal and it's easy to quietly close the bolt the rest of the way. Never carry that way until I'm in the actual hunting area though. In, and about the hut area...no way!
Don't trust a safety...but yet I'm one of those poor sods who tramped around Vietnam with an M16 (and followed by about another 90-100 guys all with weapons locked and cocked...including M60). No-one got 'accidentally' shot back then and we all had to trust the safety. 10 rounds per second could stuff up your day.
So yeah, 1/2 open bolt...only takes a split second to close the bolt as you are lifting the rifle to your shoulder to aim/take a shot.

At the NZDA Hunts Course they showed how a Mauser action with a chambered round and the bolt half open will still fire on a trigger pull. A round firing with the bolt half open is not something most of us would want to experience. The practice apparently arose when many had Lee Enfield 303B where the half open bolt would not fire but could be quickly and quietly closed on sighting a target. The equivalent they recommended with a Mauser style action was to chamber the round, open the bolt fully but hold it foward in the action with a stout rubber band looped around the bolt handle and the front scope ring. The tension on the rubber band both holds the bolt forward so the round can't drop out and also prevents any rattling of the bolt. Best, the bolt is positioned to quietly close on the firing position with minimum movement. I thought the rubber band would be kind of naf and in the way but actually the technique I found works exceptionally well and is as safe as it gets.

fark!!........i saw the title and thought moa had got someone pregnant !

I was thinking of this the other day for no really good reason. Just wondering.
It was how I sometimes carried my Stirling 14p 22 back in the day. Pointing the muzzle in a safe direction I would chamber a round with the trigger pulled.
when I wanted to fire I would rapidly lift the bolt up and down, at least that's how I remember it. Been a long long time since I did that.
tested it by bashing on things, (not the bolt though) and in reality not really carrying it in tiger country either when I did that.
Came from being told not to trust the safety it seemed the next best thing.