Thread: Otorohanga rifle range closed

I see on the Oto rifle club Facebook the FSA have closed the range until conditions are met

Is ACT-in(g) on our side? It seems to take an awful lot of time to come out with something for the people who believed in them.

The wheels of good governance rotate very slowly. be patient

Greetings
At this stage we have only had some preliminary consultation on rifle range certification and not even that on other changes to the Arms Act. I doubt if we will see any change to the Act until 2026. While the FSA seems to be taking a light approach on some parts of the act safety does not seem to be one of them.
GPM

PS Looked on FB and as suspected the template is the problem. The template requirements may not change with a change to the act but the method of implementation may.

Sounds like they have the issue sorted now thank god.

Thanks @grandpamac for the detailed, researched response.
Last week I listened (Several times) to Jack Tames interview with Nicole McKee.
McKee claimed she knew of "Several" Club/Ranges which had CLOSED due to the onerous nature of compliance.
When pushed, she refused to name any Club.
Tame countered with, "The ? (Review, Police, FSA or someone?) Could not find a single example of Clubs closing due to legislative changes.
Is the Oto Club an example of what McKee meant to say, "Clubs having to temporarily suspended activity (CLOSE) whilst they tired up there paperwork, processes and procedures."
Can any Forum members actually NAME any Club or ranges which have PERMANENTLY CLOSED as a result of onerous admin?

Originally Posted by Hugh Shields

Can any Forum members actually NAME any Club or ranges which have PERMANENTLY CLOSED as a result of onerous admin?

Yes, I can.

A bit obtuse of FSA to claim they didn't have any examples of a range being permanently closed given that those ranges that couldn't meet their criteria wouldn't have applied just to pay FSA to tell them the range didn't comply.

Fairly typical bureaucracy type answer though - well we never had any applications after the XXXXX regulation came into force that resulting in YYYYY as you claim... A few outfits that were hosted on farm type land and weren't a "permanent" range as such have either ceased to use the land through unable to comply or had their access agreements curtailed. But again, these outfits would not have met the new definition of "range" so arguably for the FSA they don't count either!

@Gillie and @No.3

Perhaps I wasn't clear on what I asked, and certainly Nicole McKee was using pretty wide brush strokes when she claimed to know of ranges or clubs which had CLOSED PERMANENTLY as a result of legislative changes.

Perhaps I should clarify what I think defines a Club or range before the legislation and what does not.

A pre legislative Club would have a carpark, Club rooms, toilets, Cafe or kitchen, a committee, President, secretary, treasurer and range officials. The range would have a mound, targets (or target frames),set up at specific, measured distances. When I visualize a Club range think of Trentham Army Camp, the NZDA Kaitoke, Kaituna Rifle Range.

So the question is, can anyone NAME an actual established Club or range which has permanently closed as a result of r legislative changes.

The definition of Club or range excludes, a few mates getting together in the local quarry, or farm paddock, to shoot a few targets and compare rifles and talk about ballistics. Those sorts of activities flew under the radar and never sort to become "Officially recognized," so cannot be said to have closed due to legislative changes. The activities may have ceased, for fear of prosecution, but CLOSED? Yeah, but nah!

Perhaps Nicole McKee is talking pork pies!?

Pleasant point had paddock set up with bench for hundy and room for two hundy.... As far as I know that's no longer in use. Steer dorkers set up new range at hadlow.hope it's still in use .police have/had one over the hill closer to cave. The sooner the one in washdyke is up n running the better.

Originally Posted by Hugh Shields

@Gillie and @No.3

Perhaps I wasn't clear on what I asked, and certainly Nicole McKee was using pretty wide brush strokes when she claimed to know of ranges or clubs which had CLOSED PERMANENTLY as a result of legislative changes.

Perhaps I should clarify what I think defines a Club or range before the legislation and what does not.

A pre legislative Club would have a carpark, Club rooms, toilets, Cafe or kitchen, a committee, President, secretary, treasurer and range officials. The range would have a mound, targets (or target frames),set up at specific, measured distances. When I visualize a Club range think of Trentham Army Camp, the NZDA Kaitoke, Kaituna Rifle Range.

So the question is, can anyone NAME an actual established Club or range which has permanently closed as a result of r legislative changes.

The definition of Club or range excludes, a few mates getting together in the local quarry, or farm paddock, to shoot a few targets and compare rifles and talk about ballistics. Those sorts of activities flew under the radar and never sort to become "Officially recognized," so cannot be said to have closed due to legislative changes. The activities may have ceased, for fear of prosecution, but CLOSED? Yeah, but nah!

Perhaps Nicole McKee is talking pork pies!?

Yes, I agree with what you are saying there but the definition of "club or range" also includes formally organised clubs that didn't actually have their own hard standing facilities, especially in smaller rural areas and several of these ran as an 'ad hoc' range setting up measured range target frames shot from an informal 'mound' on a paddock. It's these organisations that suddenly discovered that they no longer complied or met conditions, and in the cases where they elected to cease to be it was generally due to the shear workload of becoming formally compliant or - the other option they lost access to the land.

Just because a club didn't own it's own facility doesn't mean it didn't meet the definition of a club - and there in lies the rub.

Originally Posted by Micky Duck

Pleasant point had paddock set up with bench for hundy and room for two hundy.... As far as I know that's no longer in use. Steer dorkers set up new range at hadlow.hope it's still in use .police have/had one over the hill closer to cave. The sooner the one in washdyke is up n running the better.

So @Micky Duck I would imagine a "Professional" representative group such as the Deer Stalkers Association would have a comprehensive, nationwide, handbook on the establishment and running of formal, official ranges? I cannot imaging any previously accredited NZDA range having to close permanently? If I'm wrong, please let me know, anyone......????

Originally Posted by Hugh Shields

So @Micky Duck I would imagine a "Professional" representative group such as the Deer Stalkers Association would have a comprehensive, nationwide, handbook on the establishment and running of formal, official ranges? I cannot imaging any previously accredited NZDA range having to close permanently? If I'm wrong, please let me know, anyone......????

Greetings,
The ranges that I know of are still all open. These are ranges that have been set up properly in the first place. There may be some that were casual ranges on a farmers paddock used by NZDA members that have closed. Strange as it may seem, to my knowledge, there was no NZDA system for accrediting rifle ranges. NRA has one. Prior to the change in legislation NZDA probably piggy backed on the NRA one. The draft changes require clubs to work to standing orders set by their affiliated body or the regulator. This would include range safety so NZDA may adopt the current Range Safety Rules. All this is from memory so I may have got some things wrong.
GPM.

See Hugh...that's fly in oinkment. Why on earth SHOULD a range that's non profit need to be tucked off??? We humans aren't totally brain dead.if you have a big bank sticking up at end of paddock and a couple of hundy yards flat ground in front of it WHY not use it as a safe range,like old quarries the world over.a safe background is a safe background. Doesn't matter if it's one shot at a deer,duck,rabbit or a hundred into a bit of paper,either it's a safe backstop or it's not.

Originally Posted by Hugh Shields

@Gillie and @No.3

Perhaps I wasn't clear on what I asked, and certainly Nicole McKee was using pretty wide brush strokes when she claimed to know of ranges or clubs which had CLOSED PERMANENTLY as a result of legislative changes.

Perhaps I should clarify what I think defines a Club or range before the legislation and what does not.

A pre legislative Club would have a carpark, Club rooms, toilets, Cafe or kitchen, a committee, President, secretary, treasurer and range officials. The range would have a mound, targets (or target frames),set up at specific, measured distances. When I visualize a Club range think of Trentham Army Camp, the NZDA Kaitoke, Kaituna Rifle Range.

So the question is, can anyone NAME an actual established Club or range which has permanently closed as a result of r legislative changes.

The definition of Club or range excludes, a few mates getting together in the local quarry, or farm paddock, to shoot a few targets and compare rifles and talk about ballistics. Those sorts of activities flew under the radar and never sort to become "Officially recognized," so cannot be said to have closed due to legislative changes. The activities may have ceased, for fear of prosecution, but CLOSED? Yeah, but nah!

Perhaps Nicole McKee is talking pork pies!?

Yep, but I don’t shoot BP anymore