Thread: Otorohanga rifle range closed

Originally Posted by Micky Duck

See Hugh...that's fly in oinkment. Why on earth SHOULD a range that's non profit need to be tucked off??? We humans aren't totally brain dead.if you have a big bank sticking up at end of paddock and a couple of hundy yards flat ground in front of it WHY not use it as a safe range,like old quarries the world over.a safe background is a safe background. Doesn't matter if it's one shot at a deer,duck,rabbit or a hundred into a bit of paper,either it's a safe backstop or it's not.

Part of the issue is that most if not all modern formed ranges are what they class as 'zero danger area' so that EVERY shot must be contained in the range formation. Any land downstream must be protected from shot, as the range doesn't control it or exclude access. Also, overhead is classed as a hazard area for some ranges as well so the range formations must be made to not promote ricochet or bounce. Part of this comes with 'energy level' calculations, or the maximum caliber allowed to be shot on the range. This is where a lot of the ad hoc ranges fail, and also the boundary capture and exclusion mechanisms. The approvals thing is there for a reason, it might seem a bit counter intuitive but one of the risk areas for these new design ranges is the amount of metal the target butts can soak up before they become a ricochet risk in themselves and need to be turned over with the risk of lead contamination etc etc.

Originally Posted by Micky Duck

See Hugh...that's fly in oinkment. Why on earth SHOULD a range that's non profit need to be tucked off??? We humans aren't totally brain dead.if you have a big bank sticking up at end of paddock and a couple of hundy yards flat ground in front of it WHY not use it as a safe range,like old quarries the world over.a safe background is a safe background. Doesn't matter if it's one shot at a deer,duck,rabbit or a hundred into a bit of paper,either it's a safe backstop or it's not.

Greetings,
The short answer is that a few friends can have a casual sighting in area ,Not a range as such, subject to a number of conditions and this is allowed in the Range Rules. A club however can not. How many people make a club? Frankly I don't know but it is for occasional use only, not every week end.
GPM.

Originally Posted by Hugh Shields

Thanks @grandpamac for the detailed, researched response.
Last week I listened (Several times) to Jack Tames interview with Nicole McKee.
McKee claimed she knew of "Several" Club/Ranges which had CLOSED due to the onerous nature of compliance.
When pushed, she refused to name any Club.
Tame countered with, "The ? (Review, Police, FSA or someone?) Could not find a single example of Clubs closing due to legislative changes.
Is the Oto Club an example of what McKee meant to say, "Clubs having to temporarily suspended activity (CLOSE) whilst they tired up there paperwork, processes and procedures."
Can any Forum members actually NAME any Club or ranges which have PERMANENTLY CLOSED as a result of onerous admin?

Waikato rifles range just out of Cambridge. Its one of many that closed before the clubs and ranges crap came out. I used to shoot there and the backstop would not have been high enough, so would have required massive earthworks to comply. This is what Nicole was talking about. Not closed by FSA but closed because they couldnt make it fit the new template.

Actually the "new" template is way less restrictive and permits alternative approaches that were impossible to get across the line in the recent NRA template days. I found the FSA range guys excellent to deal with, and our recently certified range offers vastly more options that we ever could under NRA e.g. couldn't shoot steel, couldn't shoot a 22-250 (ffs) or 45-70, couldn't shoot a 375 H&H, couldn't use magazines, on it goes. Doing all that stuff now.

Originally Posted by Micky Duck

See Hugh...that's fly in oinkment. Why on earth SHOULD a range that's non profit need to be tucked off??? We humans aren't totally brain dead.if you have a big bank sticking up at end of paddock and a couple of hundy yards flat ground in front of it WHY not use it as a safe range,like old quarries the world over.a safe background is a safe background. Doesn't matter if it's one shot at a deer,duck,rabbit or a hundred into a bit of paper,either it's a safe backstop or it's not.

Precisely, if it has no permanent fixtures it is not a range. 'Tis a paddock.

Originally Posted by grandpamac

Greetings,
The ranges that I know of are still all open. These are ranges that have been set up properly in the first place. There may be some that were casual ranges on a farmers paddock used by NZDA members that have closed. Strange as it may seem, to my knowledge, there was no NZDA system for accrediting rifle ranges. NRA has one. Prior to the change in legislation NZDA probably piggy backed on the NRA one. The draft changes require clubs to work to standing orders set by their affiliated body or the regulator. This would include range safety so NZDA may adopt the current Range Safety Rules. All this is from memory so I may have got some things wrong.
GPM.

Actually all NZDA permanent Ranges were certified, and NZDA had their own Range Manual - it's referenced in Section 9.1 of the current Police Range Manual.

There were many NZDA branches and other shooting groups that also used the farmers paddock with big bank instead. these we not required to be certified until last year.

The other problem was that under the new legislation; the farmers paddock with big bank, if used by an organised group (for example forum members in South Canty) requires that organised group to be an incorporated Shooting Range Operator even if it was 1 annual shoot. There is now a cost to certify 'one off' use ranges, which is a waste of that organised group's time and money

BB.

The clubs don't need to be incorporated unless they are selling ammo. A set of rules for how you're organized is sufficient. It does cost $200 for the FSA to register the club.

Originally Posted by Tentman

The clubs don't need to be incorporated unless they are selling ammo. A set of rules for how you're organized is sufficient. It does cost $200 for the FSA to register the club.

FSA seems to disagree, I personally did the range inspection report for 2 small groups that FSA pushed back on!

BB.

Originally Posted by Basenjiboy

FSA seems to disagree, I personally did the range inspection report for 2 small groups that FSA pushed back on!

BB.

Our club didn't keep its incorporated status up, it lapsed. The FSA issued our club registration without question and after some toing and frooing certified the range. I did all the work for both processes.

From what I've seen and heard some people made a meal of it and talked too much when they should have listened, typical of some people in clubs who get a bit of power or limelight!

Originally Posted by Tentman

The clubs don't need to be incorporated unless they are selling ammo. A set of rules for how you're organized is sufficient. It does cost $200 for the FSA to register the club.

Two hundred bucks to register the Club doesn't sound too onerous.

So far @Percy Jones has identified that the Waikato Club had to close (or relocate) because the back drop (bank) didn't meet the new safety standard. Not being able to ensure the safety of the surrounding community sounds like a pretty good reason to close a range. Safety should be the number one priority.

Percy, was the Club able to find new, compliant site?

What are the, "Too onerous tasks," which Nicole McKee referred too as cause of all these Club closing?

Originally Posted by Hugh Shields

So @Micky Duck I would imagine a "Professional" representative group such as the Deer Stalkers Association would have a comprehensive, nationwide, handbook on the establishment and running of formal, official ranges? I cannot imaging any previously accredited NZDA range having to close permanently? If I'm wrong, please let me know, anyone......????

Yes I know of several NZDA ranges that closed, perhaps you should put your question to NZDA.
I also know of a couple of areas that were used as community ranges that closed

Originally Posted by 19Badger

Yes I know of several NZDA ranges that closed, perhaps you should put your question to NZDA.
I also know of a couple of areas that were used as community ranges that closed

Name them.....

The person to ask would be Nicole herself I think.
She's the one who is at the front fighting back against all the BS the labor party caused. It's a bit rude accusing her of "telling porky pies" when we all just endured 6 years of absolute horse shit.

The sort of bickering happening here is a fine example of why we get steamrolled because we cant or wont present a united from in the face of relentless attack on our sport

Originally Posted by Hugh Shields

Two hundred bucks to register the Club doesn't sound too onerous.

Agreed, however the requirement to submit annual accounts is an expensive exercise for any club.