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Thread: Our gun laws

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  1. #1
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    Our gun laws

    I find myself getting frustrated whenever I think about the provisions of the Arms Act and its various amendments. I firmly believe that laws should make sense, but in the case of the Arms Act I can't help but feel we're being forced to comply with illogical restrictions that have been engineered to simply to frustrate and confuse the law abiding gun owner.

    Very interested to hear people's perspective on the points below:

    1. E-cat magazine capacity restriction. If someone steals my A-cat AR-15 from my a-cat safe, they can simply walk into a gun shop and purchase a 30-round magazine no questions asked, and no licence required. Yet, if I want to own the same AR-15 with a 30-round magazine I need an endorsement + upgraded security. Somehow I need to convince the police that I'm fit and proper to own the same rifle in this context, but a criminal will simply buy whatever they need and do whatever they want.

    2. Collapsible stock. Same as above.

    3. Pistol grip. Same as above.

    4. Pistol grip. My A-Cat Ar-15 has a thumb-hole stock that is functionally identical to a standard pistol grip. Yet, if I want to own the same AR-15 with a free-standing pistol grip I need an endorsement + upgraded security.

    5. We're sometimes led to believe that the defining features of a MSSA (pistol grip, etc) are less about functionality and safety and more about how the public will perceive a firearm with MSSA features. Yet, I can own an A-cat bolt action rifle with a pistol grip, 10 round magazine and collapsible stock that a member of the public would not likely be able to distinguish from a MSSA.

    Thoughts?

  2. #2
    Member dogmatix's Avatar
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    The rules are nuts, so get your E-cat, or buy up on as many AR15 lowers as you can afford for A-cat purposes.
    nzfubz likes this.
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  3. #3
    Member Savage1's Avatar
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    If you look at what the overall intention is then it makes sense. To keep a better handle on MSSAs.

    What's happened is people have found loopholes all over the place with the legislation that attempted to define what an MSSA is, which in the end has destroyed the intention of the law. Challenges that were bought on by Police.

    I disagree with the judge in the pistol grip saga, I thought it was pretty clear cut what military pattern free standing pistol grip meant.
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  4. #4
    Member Banana's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Savage1 View Post
    If you look at what the overall intention is then it makes sense. To keep a better handle on MSSAs.
    ...but the features that define a MSSA make no sense.
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  5. #5
    Member Savage1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Banana View Post
    ...but the features that define a MSSA make no sense.
    Yup I agree, the only real way around it I can see is to class by type eg M16, AK47 etc. But even then people will make slight modifications to circumvent etc.

    Sometimes it's hard putting simple things in law.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Savage1 View Post
    Yup I agree, the only real way around it I can see is to class by type eg M16, AK47 etc. But even then people will make slight modifications to circumvent etc.

    Sometimes it's hard putting simple things in law.
    I don't think that would work

    If there has to be multiple category's of firearms then it needs to be so clear that even someone who knows very little about firearms can understand it.

    Eg- pistol, manual operated(bolt,pump,lever etc) semi auto, full auto.
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  7. #7
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    Re MSSA features not making sense. My personal favourite example is collapsible stocks. Pin an adjustable stock to its shortest position, and that's perfectly fine for a-cat. Make it adjustable again so that it can only be made LONGER, and that's a E-cat feature. Insanity.
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  8. #8
    Member stumpy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dannz View Post
    Re MSSA features not making sense. My personal favourite example is collapsible stocks. Pin an adjustable stock to its shortest position, and that's perfectly fine for a-cat. Make it adjustable again so that it can only be made LONGER, and that's a E-cat feature. Insanity.
    but if you pin it too short , and overall length is less than 762mm ..... you now own a pistol
    NO MATTER HOW MUCH IT HURTS, HOW DARK IT GETS OR HOW FAR YOU FALL , .....
    YOU ARE NEVER OUT OF THE FIGHT . (Marcus Luttrell)

  9. #9
    Member Banana's Avatar
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    I don't see why M16s or AKs should be restricted more than any other semi (or any gun). They're all functionally the same.
    steven, res and Sasquatch like this.

  10. #10
    ebf
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    Quote Originally Posted by Banana View Post
    I don't see why M16s or AKs should be restricted more than any other semi (or any gun). They're all functionally the same.
    Well, not really...

    If they were all the same we would still see people doing armed robberies etc with flintlock pistols and muskets, or being issued with those when they do military service...

    The reality is that a modern semi-auto rifle with a high capacity magazine is significantly more functional and effective. On the good side it makes for a very effective and fun firearm for recreational shooting, on the negative side - if it lands up in the hands of a criminal or nutcase, it is a truly scary option.
    Savage1 and gadgetman like this.
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  11. #11
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    It's the rinse and repeat thread
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  12. #12
    Member Banana's Avatar
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    I don't see why M16s or AKs should be restricted more than any other semi
    I mainly meant this part. I added the 'or any gun' because I think if you can't be trusted to own a certain type of firearm, you can't be trusted to own any firearm. I didn't mean all guns are functionally the same.
    Last edited by Banana; 16-12-2014 at 12:37 PM.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Banana View Post
    .... I think if you can't be trusted to own a certain type of firearm, you can't be trusted to own any firearm.
    Having seen some scary shit on rifle ranges and pistol ranges, I feel (A) it's too easy to get a license and (B) keeping pistol license separate is a good thing
    Savage1, Baz and steven like this.

  14. #14
    Member Spook's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kscott View Post
    Having seen some scary shit on rifle ranges and pistol ranges, I feel (A) it's too easy to get a license and (B) keeping pistol license separate is a good thing
    I have seen plenty of scary shit on this forum without going anywhere near a range.
    Kscott, Baz, Yukon and 5 others like this.
    Which is worse, ignorance or apathy...I don't know and don't care.

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    Ahh great, this chestnut again. Jump on everyone!

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