Thread: Overall length Saga continues

Originally Posted by tanqueray

Ah.. yes... but if you apply the logic of my original post, why do we even need pistol specific laws? Crims can and do make pistol sized firearms from rifles and shotguns. Whether they have a rifle, shortened rifle or pistol, they’re breaking the law, and naturally they’d be inclined to shorten whatever they can get their hands on anyway. Licensed firearm owners should be conducting themselves within the law, regardless of whether they’re using a 20mm cannon or a derringer.

We also have pistol laws regarding who can own and where you can use them so they are necessary. So your point is moot

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Originally Posted by ebf

@systolic, been thinking a bit about your comments regarding "constabulary independence"

Like much of the police hierarchy thinking, it is a concept inherited from the United Kingdom.

What it boils down to is actually operational independence, so that police are free to decide whether they wish to investigate or charge without undue influence from politicians.

What it does not mean, is policy independence. Which is what I suspect you (and some of the top brass) are aiming for.

It is the job of the police to enforce the law, not to dream up laws that fit their world view...

Pretty sure Systolic is a Military Policeman, not the other kind.

Originally Posted by tanqueray

Ah.. yes... but if you apply the logic of my original post, why do we even need pistol specific laws? Crims can and do make pistol sized firearms from rifles and shotguns. Whether they have a rifle, shortened rifle or pistol, they’re breaking the law, and naturally they’d be inclined to shorten whatever they can get their hands on anyway. Licensed firearm owners should be conducting themselves within the law, regardless of whether they’re using a 20mm cannon or a derringer.

It's based around the belief that pistols are:

A - Predominantly for defensive use, and the authorities want to maintain their own monopoly on who is accepted to have guns for defensive use

B - Easily concealable, making them suitable for criminal use.

The original fear that the authorities had with pistols, was the idea that they would be used against them in a soclialist/communist revolution. They were shit scared that what happened in the Russian Empire in 1917 would happen in western nations.

Originally Posted by Russian 22.

We also have pistol laws regarding who can own and where you can use them so they are necessary. So your point is moot

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Lol. I’m arguing over the validity of a piece of legislation, and your response is that my point is moot because we have legislation.

Originally Posted by 300CALMAN

Pretty sure Systolic is a Military Policeman, not the other kind.

Or a mall security guard maybe?

Originally Posted by tanqueray

Lol. I’m arguing over the validity of a piece of legislation, and your response is that my point is moot because we have legislation.

Arguing that because criminals can use something should mean that we can use them too isn't a good idea to me.

I suppose you support conceal carry of pistols?

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Originally Posted by Russian 22.

Arguing that because criminals can use something should mean that we can use them too isn't a good idea to me.

I suppose you support conceal carry of pistols?

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Classic straw man.

Originally Posted by Russian 22.

Arguing that because criminals can use something should mean that we can use them too isn't a good idea to me.

I suppose you support conceal carry of pistols?

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I support conceal carry but then I was born in the state of Georgia

Originally Posted by tanqueray

Ah.. yes... but if you apply the logic of my original post, why do we even need pistol specific laws? Crims can and do make pistol sized firearms from rifles and shotguns. Whether they have a rifle, shortened rifle or pistol, they’re breaking the law, and naturally they’d be inclined to shorten whatever they can get their hands on anyway. Licensed firearm owners should be conducting themselves within the law, regardless of whether they’re using a 20mm cannon or a derringer.

I agree that we shouldn't NEED pistol specific laws but we HAVE pistol specific laws

I don't see the need to have different categories of guns, I am allowed to own as many rifles as I want, I am not allowed to own a MSSA or Pistol (I have no interest in owning a pistol or a MSSA). Am I less a fit and prober person than many of you? The only difference is the compliance requirements for owning them, I assume this is to help prevent these types of guns falling into the wrong hands.
My 10/22 if cut down is just as dangerous as any 22 caliber pistol. I just wish the police would concentrate on catching crim's with guns and stop trying to make us (fit and proper people) law abiding voters into criminals.

Originally Posted by 300CALMAN

Pretty sure Systolic is a Military Policeman, not the other kind.

Better work stories!

Originally Posted by 40mm

Better work stories!

@40mm

Agree, but problem is... jobs with 'better' work stories often have 'better' confidentiality requirements.. )-:

Originally Posted by Danger Mouse

From: Travis Mills <Travis.Mills@parliament.govt.nz>
Sent: Thursday, 16 August 2018 9:25 a.m.
To:xxxxx
Subject: NZ police enforcement of 'policy' over legislation

Dear Mr xxxxxx

Thank you for your email of 15 August 2018, to the Minister of Police, Hon Stuart Nash, concerning Police enforcement of the Arm Act.

Please note that there is a long standing convention that prevents Ministers from becoming involved in specific police investigations or operations. This ensures that operational matters within police remain free of any political influence or interference.

Your correspondence to the Minister has therefore been transferred to the office of the Commissioner of Police, for consideration by Police.

Yours faithfully

Travis


Travis Mills
Private Secretary (Police)
Office of Hon Stuart Nash, Minister of Police
Level 19 Bowen House | Parliament Buildings, Wellington 6010
M +64 021 220 6607
P +64 04 817 6979
E travis.mills@parliament.govt.nz

Right team,
here is the response.
1t point, they got my name wrong.
2nd they didnt really answer any of the questions.
3rd point. This has been shown to a few people, non shooters. They are quite concerned at the greater issue here - the abuse of police powers and the lack of accountability being dislayed. I think this is the actual important point that needs to be emphasasied.

I will be contact a few organizations emphasizing this point in order to continue placing pressure.

Keep on keepin on team.

Your third point is the most important.
NZ Police do this with the holiday speed tolerance's as well. By law your speedo must be accurate to 10% not what ever Police HQ decide for the time period.
They are even trying it on with sports club's liqour licences too.

Originally Posted by Cordite

@40mm

Agree, but problem is... jobs with 'better' work stories often have 'better' confidentiality requirements.. )-:

I was joking! military police are probably less exciting than real police. @Cordite
the better work stories campaign to recruit more cops has probably let a few people down, once they realised the crap they have to put up with on the job. no wonder most cops are grumpy bastards.

When is the case due in court? Won't the result set a precedent the police have to follow?..more so than petitioning ministers etc, if the courts won't recognize the policy then there's zero point in the police trying to enforce it..