https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/patent...JVNMZVKFWIR3Y/
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it's that liar again, the one who lied about not needing a license to buy ammo, 0 integrity.
Yes. But also take into consideration how many submissions are made for legislation changes on average. Bet this is much higherQuote:
Originally Posted by GDMP
I left mine till it was almost too late. I would imagine there are a lot that believe nothing would make a difference and I tend to agree.
My opinionon public consultation is that it makes it look like you will listen, keep most people quiet thinking they have a say and they do what they want anyway. As for cost, whilst my pocket wouldn't like it I will admit if it was raised to 400 nicker or a little more I could understand. The rest of the cost recovery exercise was blatant robbery.
We are tax payers too so already paying for some of it anyway.
Just another way to drive people from the sport
Two Points. Firstly, Where is the Independent Authority Firearms Owners were promised. Secondly, Police are not a User-Pays Organisation. The key words for Why Police screamed blue murder over an Independent Authority is going from Administrators Of to Regulators Of. Anything they want will be passed by Order In Council and with $200 Million+ to play with, and that will increase, Mike McIlraith is Empire Building and like before those monies will be diverted which is why NZ Police will present no background as to how the new Fees were arrived at. As for rolling out Cahill, he is the pet attack dog for PNHQ, nothing more but gun owners know this. My and your Taxes have already paid for the NZ Police. The End.
Wrong. Firearms licensing is listed by Police as a public safety benefit. If the beneficiary of the 'safety benefits' is the public, let the public pay. I contest the reason Police don't want public funding is it requires an onerous and extremely detailed accounting of what the funds are spent on, whereas user pays can be 'creatively accounted' with less oversight.Quote:
Originally Posted by OGM
As long as criminals are charged for wasting police time as well, it’s only fair, if you’re looking at charging police time.Quote:
Originally Posted by OGM
They are blatantly trying to price as out of our sport.
I made a submission and in doing so gave them a serve but all the while expected my words to be completely ignored. The outcome of the consultation will be what the Police want it to be and nothing we do or say will change that outcome. That said, I for one will never give them the satisfaction of relinquishing my chosen sport because of their efforts to make me do so.
He stated it in an interview, some time ago.Quote:
Originally Posted by OGM
I pointed out in mine that the costs of a passport are not the full costs, neither is the costs for a Drivers license. In fact many of these are not fully charged. The full costs of criminal action are not passed on to the criminals (prosecution costs, processing costs, remand costs) so why should a firearms license be any different? If they started fully recovering costs for these then fine, I would accept a lift in fees- but if that is the case, then taxes would not need to be so high as they are recovering costs from users.Quote:
Originally Posted by OGM
The proposal document admits thatQuote:
Originally Posted by Maca49
I for one would like to see that the costs are broken down for all to see if they are going to hike the price of a licence.
That only seems fair to see where the money is going.
In reality I highly doubt it's going to cost $700 plus dollars. Remember its a Govt Dept. They do not pay well for non sworn staff to do anything.
($700 / $30 phr is 23.3 hrs of labour.)
I would like to see the interviewers who come to your house well paid. That is the only way that an interviewer of any quality will consider doing the job. Paying peanuts and employing retirees' is not the answer.
Astute, intelligent, experienced interviewers with behavioural science skills is what are required. If this had been done years ago certain events could possibly have been avoided before they even started.
Thats my 2 cents anyway. Sometimes to save money you have to spend money in the right places.
Not just drink check points. Imagine if your driver license had to fund all of road policing. What would an argument be that there is a difference between being licensed to drive v a license to use a firearm?Quote:
Originally Posted by muzza
Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk
Yep. Total tugboat.Quote:
Originally Posted by 300CALMAN
I am actually pro user pays, but here where it gets interesting.
Going to piss our rugby lovers off, you want to play Rugby you need private insurance, boxing , mountain biking all sports with injury potential you pay insurance. Tourists must have full insurance to travel here.
The guy that buys an electric chain saw, and cuts himself, why should I as a person in the industry have to pay 12% when he’s a banker playing 3% and way more lighty to cut himself .
I know is having payed 10 -12% for 40 years when I need an operation, ACC claimed it was Old Age.
All food for thought!
Rant Over!
The premise is flawed to begin with as almost all LFAO are taxpayers and have contributed many times more in tax over the 10 year period than the alleged deficit in license costs.
Cahill saying that the taxpayers cover most of the bill is just disgusting to read.
I replied and submitted .Told them nowwt but a bunch of price gougers whod make dead gangsta roll in their graves in envy and bring a tear to a glass eye.Bloody thing is probably written by a new age spotty herbert with a fat gutted PNHQ desk flyer dribbling over her shoulder.Quote:
Originally Posted by tac a1
Vettors with behavioural science -youd be dreamin mate .The last vettor i spoke to was ..wait for it....a yoga instructor from ashburton who didnt know the first thing about privacy laws let alone interviewing me in a public carpark whilst families strolled past to the toilets .Previous to that and in my own case I truck an ex traffic cop turned copper whose sarcasm and ridculing of matters pertaining to mental health made me see red and drill him a new arsehole. it set him back somewhat but did bring forth an apology for being inappropriate.
The fact I was also a serving Tf soldier also made him think twice. Ive also got depression had the bastard for years and I medicated but Im no different to anyone else-oh says he "well could you get a GPs certificate?" .my Dr burs t out laughing described me as a fairly safe pair of hands and whipped out a certificate.
Lets get it straight -Ive no truck with most frontline coppers having also been on more of my share of assorted explicit descriptions of my pedigree and others who loved Olivia newton John"lets get physical.(often with hot drinks or assorted body fluids trying to soak us) but we were trained to handle that and we did ..with bare hands!!
Its the shinyarsed biro pushers and Cahill types who get right up my clacker.
I made exactly that point in my submission. The setting of fees is to be paid by those using the service ('the beneficiaries'). The stated aim of the new Arms Act nonsense is 'public safety' therefore the users of the system are the 'public'. Firearms owners are not the 'benficiaries' of the new Arms Act, they are the victims of it!Quote:
Originally Posted by No.3
That's rich coming from one whose whole existence relies on sucking from the public tit! He is an evil little parasite!Quote:
Originally Posted by Preacher
But its ok to spend 1.66 million a year keeping Brenton Tarrent locked up:wtfsmilie:
@ tac a1 if you had read the full proposal document you’d have seen that the hourly charge out rate was listed at $90/hr. That figure alone is laughable let alone some of the other figures used. Gave me little faith in the submission process but went through it anyway. The wording of the document gave me the impression that we will be paying around $700/ 10 year license plus endorsement fees every 2 years? Not at all palatable but will have to suck it up if that’s what it is. I admit to being a bit jaded with regards to licence fees. Eg. $900/5 years for Registered Chemical Applcator, a few hundred more/5 years for Invertebrate Poisons, a few hundred for MPI game recovery, a few more hundred to keep advanced First Aid cert. current, more dollars to keep chainsaw cert. Feck me the list goes on. All to make the world a safer place for all the pussys we’ve bred. Better stop now, getting wound up and of subject.
This whole thing is
A: A cash grab, more or less another layer of taxation
B: An attempt to choke out firearms ownership and activities through cost and regulation.
From Police copied verbatim:
“Fees are not intended to be direct contributors to public safety in themselves but they may reduce the demand for and use of firearms.”
perhaps a rooting tax will reduce the amount of DPB dependancy too????Quote:
Originally Posted by Beavis
perhaps a fast food tax will reduce folks getting fat??????
when the ques for McDonalds first day out of lockdown are looked at..we arent going to make it as a species..more tax will fix that.
Don't forget the climate taxes to make the weather better.Quote:
Originally Posted by Micky Duck
Would love to say what I think about this but got renewal coming up and free speech and transparency blah blah etc
I did read it, but I must of missed that $90 p/hr part somehow.Quote:
Originally Posted by woods223
How do you justify $90 an hr when I would be surprised if a non sworn interviewer is getting $30.
Something stinks here.
Proper interviewers are out there. I suppose its just the price difference between them and yoga instructors.Quote:
Originally Posted by kotuku
Ex t/o's. Yeah well, Im not going comment about them.
It's because the cost of a FA licence has been that way for 18 years so it's reasonable expect an increase from the current $126.50 for an A Cat. My house has tripled in price in that time and the grocery bill has probably done the same. How much of an increase remains to be seen. There is a lot of work and time spent on a firearms licence and currently it also covers a free change of address and a permit to buy firearms ammo etc. online. Near everything is going to go up in price, if it hasn't already. A lettuce now costs $7- $9, local McDonalds doesn't put it in their burgers anymore.Quote:
Originally Posted by timattalon
When the boffins in police openly state the the proposed increase in price will likely cause many to not get a FAL we have plenty to bitch about.Quote:
Originally Posted by 10-Ring
A Police document released just before the close-off date for submissions put the charge-out rate at $143.00 per hour!Quote:
Originally Posted by tac a1
Does anyone actually know how much per hr the interviewers actually get in their hand??Quote:
Originally Posted by gundoc
Interested to know and then how the Police justify that excessive amount
Other Govt departments need to increase reimbursements if we are expected to pay inflation adjusted rates. ACC reimburse travel at 23c a K.
Sounds like they are making shit up again.Quote:
Originally Posted by gundoc
Whats the point, sub missions will be ignored anyway like they have every other time.Quote:
Originally Posted by GDMP
The only submission that'll count is the one on the 14th of October.
Even the unless Nicole gets a decent say in things after that shooter in NZ are screwed.
The Police have clearly had an agenda since 2019 and are going to run it full course if allowed to do so, the opinion of gun owners was never considered by the Police.
If we pay, can we now demand service?
Not a religion, just a sport, a hobby, a passion.Quote:
Originally Posted by OGM
Just like everything else in life be it; rugby, cars, cooking, etc, some people just dabble in it a few times a year and others live a breathe it everyday.
There are many people who have dedicated their entrie lives to shooting sports, I know people who spent decades doing service rifle shooting in NZ and abroad.
One guy in particular lived and breathed all shooting sports, he was part of the mountain safety council, was heavily involved with the Police and even was the guy who ran the FAL exams in my area for many years. Well after March 2019 his lifes contribution didn't mean anything and went from being a good guy to the community to "one of those gun nuts" overnight.
If you only joined in 2022 you didn't see the way things played out in the 12 months post 2019.
It was heart breaking to see clubs that had been "friends" on the Police for years groveling to try keep their sports alive, only to meet with contempt at every step.
This forum has moved on a lot since then and seems like most people have forgotten how things played out, the remaining "religious zealots" are just the ones who were effected the most, with the odd nutter thrown in for good measure.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OGM
I did the numbers, the cost of licenses plus revenue from GST on firearms, accessories, and ammunition more than covers it.
You are assuming their progeny will work and pay tax? :roll:Quote:
Originally Posted by OGM
Seriously how long have you lived in New Zealand?
One point is while most of us here are keen shooters or hunters or both, in my experience there are a great deal of rural LFO's who mostly kill pests such as rabbits, possums, goats etc as part of work or because they need to on their property. These people aren't hobbyists or necessarily keen fire arm users. This will cause many to quit (if they can) or possibly some will go outside the law. I would say without a doubt pest control will suffer. I suspect duck shooting is going to take a big hit also.
also the way to get more people being safer with firearms is to have more people comply with the law - duh
Pricing people out of complying will increase non-compliance and hence more people will be on the wrong side of the law
The Police approach to FAL admin is starting from the wrong premise and going in the wrong direction
It was a recommendation of the report that NZP be relieved of administering the act and I would like to see this recommendation carried out
Yes FAL license fees are very cheap and have been for a long time but ratcheting them up slowly is better than a 400% increase
And I'll second that . comparative youngster in terms of your tenancy on here but already youre strident statements and ???pro police POV is starting to irritate those of longstanding .Quote:
Originally Posted by muzza
my genteel advice tone it down a bit and maybe take time to consider other ,more senior members POVs before bounding in with your own.
tis an old dog who walks the footpath,the pups run on the street. good day to you.