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You're partially wrong there. Passports has run a memorandum account for years. Adults pay over the actual cost because people think a child's passport should be cheaper, so adults subsidise children.Quote:
Originally Posted by timattalon
Occasionally politicians interfere with the cost of passports because people get emotional about them, but in the long run average passports are fully cost recovered.
Identify your target beyond all doubt because you never miss (right?) and I'll be missed.
Actually, come to think of it, that may be what Police want to do. Then they could build the cost of building the register into the fees, just like the cost if the laser passport printers was built into passport prices.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eat Meater
Identify your target beyond all doubt because you never miss (right?) and I'll be missed.
Agreed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Finnwolf
get off your high horse .wikipaedia as a resource ...really. Ihave nothing but respect for you but not much of that. goodbyeQuote:
Originally Posted by OGM
Bit like ol Systolic maybe?????
I don't think National will really give two shits, if this all goes through before then they wont reverse anything.Quote:
Originally Posted by GDMP
I don't like putting faith in politicians but a good turn out for the Yellow team is pretty much our only hope.
Regarding the cost increases beign justified or not, during the shitfight trhoughout 2019-2021 the Police finances came to light which showed a high porportion of revenue collected by LFAOs was being diverted away for other things. If they've had money to burn at the current fee rates then they sure as hell can't justify an increase.
Unless they want to say the price should increase along with inflation/CPI but in that case we should all be asking tax brackets to rise along side it.
Again this was all fully laid out back in 2020, the video submissions are still on YouTube. While the Police might be using different terminology now it's basically the same arguement, and still comes back to if they had done their job properly Mar 15 would never have happened, and if they stopped giving licences to idiots/gang affiliates NZ wouldn't be in the state it is now.
I had a chat with Nicole at the field days in November, they stuff she can tell you about the Police pre March 2019, and their U-turn ever since is shocking to say the least.
Very similar tone.Quote:
Originally Posted by matagouri
I know a guy ( lol don't we all ) who was recently employed as a Vetor. I think he gets around $30/hour but I can ask for an exact amount if you like.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tac a1
noted stug -hes gone to my ignore list,cant be bothered!
Just been in the ma ncave working and listening to the local ZBt alkback host climbing up cahills arse and showing what a bloody ignoramus he is re mental health .this thing was all for establishing a specialist "mental health police" FFS
People may be placed under papers by police ,family or MH staff if their mental state shows
an inability to care for themselves
their presentation poses a real risk to themselves or kin or property thereof
the show a marked disturbance in volition or mood state sufficient to incapacitate them as above
placement in the hospital isw usually a month /6weeks and further comprehensive assessments are set in motion
Should the subject show sufficient improvement or the crisis resolves the process can be stopped b t a responsible clinician 9psychiatrist)person is free to go.
the actual committal hearing is before a judge where all parties are heard,before a decision is issued.inhouse or community order made
if a person is committed they have the right of appeal using taxpayer funded independent counsel
now this is the important thing 99.9%OF PEOPLE ARE IGNORANT OF.THE ABOVE PROCESS IS LEGAL!
IN HOSPTAL THE PERSON ENJOYS THE BENEFITS OF NZs"PATIENT CODE OF RIGHTS'
The right to REFUSE treatment
The right to be fully informed of all matters pertaining to them
the right to discontinue any treatment or procedure at any stage ,no reason needs be given
this is 3/10 IIRC
anyone see the dilemma MH professionals face??????
to overrule any of these you really need to have your Ps&Q"S sorted cause one tiny slip and your arse is in a big barbed wire sling.
me cunning as a dhit house rat pass decion up the line theyre paid to have the headache.
also all persons in mental health units have free and unfettered access to the district inspector (a fully qualified fairly experienced lawyer govt appointed)who can go anywhere speak to anyone and demand documents etc .to refuse them is again virtual suicide from a nursing POV. so contray to folklore a commited persons legal rights remaiin and are full catered to free of charge.
this ZB cock is full of equine faeces and right up Cahills arse.mods sorry to go off on a tangent but using mental health as a police excuse for inteptitude and have a media dropkick reinforce it pissed me right off.BTWif anyone has any queries re mental health please feel free to ask Im only to willing to assist.
I'm pushing a different tactic with my club.
The police are saying that the increase is to recover costs.
Fair enough, so I've asked my club to also take this stance.
We know from our membership info how many of our members are due for renewal in the next 12 months.
We also charge the police a nominal fee for their extensive use of our range for training both general duties and AOS staff.
My proposal is that we add the costs of our members renewals in the next 12 months to the nominal fee we already charge.
We can just call this recovering costs for our members.
If you are a member of a club whose range is used for training by police, I'd encourage you to bring this proposal to your committee for consideration.
For your own mental health Id suggest stop listening to talk back.Quote:
Originally Posted by kotuku
Listening to the average Kiwis views on topics they know FA about was driving me crazy, did me a lot of good to stop listening.
@bluemonsta I would give this 100 likes if I could, this needs to be NZ wide. A lot of regular A cat license holders have no idea how much the police rely on pistol clubs / ranges for all their training etc.....Genius !!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by bluemonsta
beetroot -its mostly quietly playing in the back ground -normally Im o busy to pay any a ttention but this cocks garbology today really fucked me off!
But it’s entertaining. And keeps you aware of how many vocal ignoramasus are sharing our planet.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beetroot
If they kept it a lifetime license, would they not have administrative and cost problems like they do now?
The cynic in me says there can't be any empire building with such a lean stripped out licencing regime... But yes, keeping the licencing regime simple and efficient means more resources at the business end rather than in the back rooms, surely.Quote:
Originally Posted by Allizdog
It is crazy. Some miniscule amount of truth from cahils mouth. "the police have not done a good job of licencing in the past".
Cost recovery is not going to improve it unless something fundamentally changes inside the police system. And why would you when you are getting more funding from an external source.
Dog registration for me is just over 100 a year. And that covers ANIMAL control too. Not just dog control. But cats, rabbits, avian and all sorts of residential animals. Including live stock that gets lose on council control areas. So dog owners are actually subsidising anyone else. About time cat owners pay too.
Also alcohol tax doesn't cover the cost direct of harm caused by alcohol consumption (drink driving, assaults, domestic assaults, heal problems etc etc) let alone the indirect costs.
Tobacco tax doesn't cover the cost of harm caused by smoking.
If the police wanted public safety why are they not pushing to ban smoking and drinking? Or atleast increase the taxation to cover the costs.
Best solution is an independent govt organisation and streamline the process. Efficency and safety should increase.
But no logic apply will get through.
Stop being sensible.Quote:
Originally Posted by Allizdog
I had a security check done at home yesterday by firearms officer as I have recently moved , I did mention I had a license for life at one stage and met all the criteria to have one …..
He was saying it’s in the $600 to $800 range for re-newing and more for if it’s a new license .
What doesn’t seem clear is there also a fee per firearm to register and also guns parts ? Does anyone have any more info on this ?
To be honest I think nobody really knows right now.
Am I missing something here? What does the Police Association have to do with the setting of fees or the sham consultation?:O_O:
That is the real news here - the Police Assn acting as the mouthpiece of the Govt. I wonder if there are any political ambitions lurking anywhere near Mr Cahill? (shades of Greg O'Connor maybe?)Quote:
Originally Posted by Nickoli
I'd prefer an independent organisation to handle licensing, and the Police to stick to their core job, which is/should be catching criminals.
What doesn’t seem clear is there also a fee per firearm to register and also guns parts ? Does anyone have any more info on this ?
If the NZ Police are so stupid as to think they can launch a Gun Register and expect Gun Owners to pay them for the privilege of populating Their Register it is no wonder that the Criminals are running rampant and rule the streets of this once great & wonderful Country.
I suspect you're right about political ambitions ( i.e. Cahill ).Quote:
Originally Posted by Ross Nolan
Police are quoted as saying taxpayers have been subsidising the Firearms Licensing system to the tune of hundreds of million of dollars per year. Also, Cahill admits Police have done a poor job of managing Firearms Licensing. Surely that speaks of gross incompetence. If Police cannot provide first class management on "hundreds of millions of dollars per year" they should be stripped of the responsibility. There is just no logical excuse. It's past time to hand it over to an independent body. I doubt much will improve with the looming Register continuing under Police management.
You're pretty much exactly right. Police have dug themselves a hole, and rather than either admitting they can't do it or actually trying to fix the issue they've gone to increase funding to purchase new and better shovels. And when that didn't fix things, they now want to get 20ton diggers at the expense of the people forced to be in their system... Complete madness.Quote:
Originally Posted by 30.06king
Hundreds of millions a year?
With 250,000 licensed firearms owners in NZ, each 100 million is $400 each per year. Seriously? Assuming $200,000,000, I wonder what my $800 was spent on? And last years, and the year before that, and.....
Whats funny, is people on facebook realising that shit is about to hit the fan with the licencing costs and whinging about it , only to be asked , well did you enter a submission about the costs rising ......
No ?
well your a half witt cause this has been happening for awhile now !
Rant over.
Never a truer word spoken....Quote:
Originally Posted by muzza
Wasn't that tugboat, Jack Tame, was it? He's an expert on everything.Quote:
Originally Posted by kotuku
About 8000 submissions done I heard , they were probably just an avenue to have a say but in reality make no difference on the changes planned ahead .
I did one , even if it makes no difference , it’s better than doing nothing and complaining about it .
That's my attitude about voting.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucky
I think Wikipedia was an ok source for that particular argument above. The poster could use this next timeQuote:
Originally Posted by OGM
https://utminers.utep.edu/omwilliams.../fallacies.htm
Identify your target beyond all doubt because you never miss (right?) and I'll be missed.
as for cahills comments about police and mental health-conveniently he didnt mention the teams of experienced psychiatric nurses who work in POLICE WATCHHOUSES in all major centres an d advise police in cases of untoward behaviours etc. just another case of political expediency and inciting the public wqith sensationalism.
my second point references -after perusing comments on this thread Ireached for my favourite reference- OLD ENGLISH DICTIONARY-the word ignore cropped up -definition seemed perfect for what i wanted so used it.
Police have no plans to charge to register guns, but that might change over time. They are going to charge $10 to check the SN's of B's and C's though.Quote:
Originally Posted by BSA
Yeh that’s what I read too, I think you have to go on line and do your own registering, pity help us if we make a mistake on entering the serial number.Quote:
Originally Posted by Percy Jones
and if the serial number isnt a-z and 0-9, ffs help us all
imagine entering Cyrillic, asian, etc
its going to be a fustercluck
Parliament is at the top of the pyramid they make all the laws.
Everything beneath parliament act on parliaments decisions.
All problems in New Zealand have/are being caused by and can be fixed by 120 MP's.
It's our responsibility to choose the best 120.
Unfortunately no, we don't get to choose the best 120.
120 MP's, all chosen from 120 electorates, now THAT would be something to behold.
But no, Joe average has no say as to which pollies get to become a list MP. The parties do that.