Thread: Police called out for Duck shooting

Originally Posted by PestNightshooter

Interested in opinions on this and where/what it will lead to and if some proactive actions should be taken now or wait for letter to arrive and deal with then depending on what letter says.
Some quick facts around incident.
DOC ground encompassing riverbed (DOC Game bird Permit for area held and shown to Police)
Firearms license valid (Valid and viewed by Police)
Duck shooting license valid.
Firearm locked in case and opened for inspection by request for Police. Ammunition stored correctly.
This is rural environment, maybe total 5 farm houses within 3kms
Been shooting this area for 5yrs no issues until now.
Police... 3 cars...6 officers at exit gate from riverbed. Complaint about unsafe shooting, pellets have hit farm house roof.
Conclusion of interview at gateway, have been told will be getting written letter for "firing a weapon in unsafe direction"
Here is the interesting bit, I believe the complaint is false and is more likely a noise complaint or local not wanting it shot. (do shoot a limit here 5 or 6 times per season)
Why? There is only 1 houses within 1.5km and it is 736mts away.
From the research I have done it appears steel 4 shot is incapable of traveling that far.
When fired at a 40 degree elevation (apparently max range is achieved at 40 not 45) testing in England and America both say maximum with tail wind 350mts so that does not not even get 1/2 way to the closest house.

Hatchers Notebook gave te max range of lead no 4 shot at 286 yards so in line with the 350 m figure. You have to allow for bouncing of hard surfaces though which will increase the range. 700 m is a stretch though.
GPM.

Originally Posted by grandpamac

Hatchers Notebook gave te max range of lead no 4 shot at 286 yards so in line with the 350 m figure. You have to allow for bouncing of hard surfaces though which will increase the range. 700 m is a stretch though.
GPM.

At the maximum range shot comes down almost vertically and at low velocity. Even if it did bounce it would still remain within 300 metres. Remember to deduct about 10% from lead shot figures because steel does not carry as well as lead.

Keep in mind also the the F&Game considered "safe" firing zone between mai mais is 90metres FOR BB LEAD SHOT and it's steel weight per pellet equivalent. Steel#4 would consierably less danger range.

https://www.odt.co.nz/rural-life/rur...ooting-mai-mai
Not a good look for shooters in general

Originally Posted by Tedz50

https://www.odt.co.nz/rural-life/rur...ooting-mai-mai
Not a good look for shooters in general

And what has that got to do with this and all other legal game bird shooting.

Originally Posted by PestNightshooter

And what has that got to do with this and all other legal game bird shooting.

Sorry I did not word that very well,
maybe that incident needs it own thread rather than be entangled in this one.

Having been through a situation similar to what the OP posted, my advice is get in early and argue your case...
This is what happened to me about 12 years back.
Being a wildlife ranger, I got notified by F&G that the local council rubbish/recycling place had a problem with Pukekos that were pulling out plants in the educational facility on the property......(Schools visited the place and the kids planted vegetables etc in recycled waste then came back a few weeks/months later to harvest what they had planted.)
After getting the required permit, the only way to deal with the problem was to use a suppressed 22 with subsonics and because of the terrain, there was only one direction available to shoot. This direction was into a 25m high soft earth bank with trees lining 3 sides giving a firing lane about 30 m wide and about 50m long. After setting up a 'Hide' before sunrise the following morning I duly dealt to about 25 pukeko's between 7.15 am and 7,45 that turned up, collected the carcasses and left.
Got back home and about 3 hours later one of my staff ( home business) said the Police were out back wanting to talk to me. It transpired that a person who was kayaking a local creek, and who was opposed to the pukeko cull had laid a formal complaint that they had been shot at, with the bullet hitting the water right next to the kayak. The Police then went on to say that the sound of the shot was witnessed by 2 other people who also heard the bullet hit the water. I told them that wasnt possible and described to them the area and the setup..then after they had checked out my licence, storage etc I accompanied them back to the scene and showed them the setup. They then left to discuss the matter with their Snr Sgt.

They arrived back later that afternoon with a formal letter of warning and told me that it would go on my FAL record. I refused to accept the warning and went down to the local station to talk to the Snr Sgt. The upshot was that the following morning I met the Snr and the 2 officers at the site at 7am along with my rifle/suppressor etc and showed them exactly what I had done....including firing 2 live rounds. ( Got 2 more Pukeko's btw) The police were standing about 30m behind me in the direction I had, according to the complainant, been shooting. They didnt even hear the sound of the the suppressed shots due to the shredding machine at the green waste section munching greenwaste along with all the other machinery that had started working.
To cut a long story short, the police withdrew the warning letter, apologized and went back to interview the complainant and witnesses.....When they pointed out that the gate log showed my entry and exit times between 6.15 and 7.45, the complainant was adamant that the event took place between 8.30 to and 8.45 and that even if they dismissed the timing aspect, due to the noise of the the machinery there was no way they could have heard anything let alone a suppressed 22 from 300m away they ended up giving the complainant a warning letter for making a frivolous complaint and wasting their time.
I also asked for and got a letter stating the outcome of the investigation and stuck it to the back wall inside one of my gun safes in case the matter surfaced when I did my next FAL renewal. ( It didnt)

My suggestion is to gather the facts, present them in a concise and logical way and do not accept any liability whatsoever. It will save time, money and stress in the long run.

Originally Posted by Allgood

Having been through a situation similar to what the OP posted, my advice is get in early and argue your case...
This is what happened to me about 12 years back.
Being a wildlife ranger, I got notified by F&G that the local council rubbish/recycling place had a problem with Pukekos that were pulling out plants in the educational facility on the property......(Schools visited the place and the kids planted vegetables etc in recycled waste then came back a few weeks/months later to harvest what they had planted.)
After getting the required permit, the only way to deal with the problem was to use a suppressed 22 with subsonics and because of the terrain, there was only one direction available to shoot. This direction was into a 25m high soft earth bank with trees lining 3 sides giving a firing lane about 30 m wide and about 50m long. After setting up a 'Hide' before sunrise the following morning I duly dealt to about 25 pukeko's between 7.15 am and 7,45 that turned up, collected the carcasses and left.
Got back home and about 3 hours later one of my staff ( home business) said the Police were out back wanting to talk to me. It transpired that a person who was kayaking a local creek, and who was opposed to the pukeko cull had laid a formal complaint that they had been shot at, with the bullet hitting the water right next to the kayak. The Police then went on to say that the sound of the shot was witnessed by 2 other people who also heard the bullet hit the water. I told them that wasnt possible and described to them the area and the setup..then after they had checked out my licence, storage etc I accompanied them back to the scene and showed them the setup. They then left to discuss the matter with their Snr Sgt.

They arrived back later that afternoon with a formal letter of warning and told me that it would go on my FAL record. I refused to accept the warning and went down to the local station to talk to the Snr Sgt. The upshot was that the following morning I met the Snr and the 2 officers at the site at 7am along with my rifle/suppressor etc and showed them exactly what I had done....including firing 2 live rounds. ( Got 2 more Pukeko's btw) The police were standing about 30m behind me in the direction I had, according to the complainant, been shooting. They didnt even hear the sound of the the suppressed shots due to the shredding machine at the green waste section munching greenwaste along with all the other machinery that had started working.
To cut a long story short, the police withdrew the warning letter, apologized and went back to interview the complainant and witnesses.....When they pointed out that the gate log showed my entry and exit times between 6.15 and 7.45, the complainant was adamant that the event took place between 8.30 to and 8.45 and that even if they dismissed the timing aspect, due to the noise of the the machinery there was no way they could have heard anything let alone a suppressed 22 from 300m away they ended up giving the complainant a warning letter for making a frivolous complaint and wasting their time.
I also asked for and got a letter stating the outcome of the investigation and stuck it to the back wall inside one of my gun safes in case the matter surfaced when I did my next FAL renewal. ( It didnt)

My suggestion is to gather the facts, present them in a concise and logical way and do not accept any liability whatsoever. It will save time, money and stress in the long run.

Thanks for sharing your experience, appreciated and enlightening.

The complaint can’t have been too worried if they walked closer to the shooting to work out where it was coming from. If you were worried about your safety you would not go any closer.

This is interesting reading. One of my lads got in a bit of bother doing stupid shit in his younger days ( burnout with car). I talked to a lawyer at the local rugby club. First thing she said was “ has he talked to the police”. “ never admit guilt”. So from that I would take it that it is up to them to prove it was even you.? To prove it even happened.?
Would the complainant go to court to testify etc. just a few thoughts and all the best.

@Allgood - that was indeed an interesting post. The concerning bit is the effect of accepting the warning letter when renewing firearms licence. It will be too late to appeal or protest your innocence at that point.

Wow thanks for sharing that Allgood. Just goes to show that things sometimes go very very wrong.

Trouble is that the Police can only go on the information that is given to them. They don't seem to have the time to investigate anything properly these days, hence these terrible results and experiences that people are having with them.

Doesn't do them any favors IMO.

Really good post here guys as I sit reading and waiting for the last leg to London from Dubai.
Might pay to get someone to put a sticky on this thread.

During the process of writing down notes while memory was fresh something else has jumped out, one officer questioned about the "volume" of shooting.
They appear to have been concerned by either (1) loudness of shooting or (2) number of shots being fired (bear in mind 29 ducks were shot but no more than 40rnds were fired)
This line of enquiry makes the complaint sound even more suspect to me.
At one point was told had not committed any offence and could leave...then other officer (who was the only officer that referred to pellets landing on house roof) stated he would be getting sent a letter. (First contact officers said they were responding to shooting in riverbed "most likely duck shooter" call.
Implications are shotguns are too loud, or you cannot shoot the legal limit of birds because it requires too many shots to be fired creating noise nuisance?

nah...its Karens,who buy a house in the country and get all upset when tiddles the cat/dog/goldfish gets upset by the noise of shots going off...Tiddles is probably thinking its all good fun and wants to join in...... I was asked about this senario by a good mate DURING opening weekend from other side of fence angle...I SUGGESTED to put dog in wagon and go for a drive....or will be come the "bitch of a neighbour" forever afterwards.....MOST places will be luck to be shot 4-5 weekends a season.... if Karen turned up the radio Tiddles wouldnt even notice.