Pump action rifles dilemma FSA making threats ?

Was contacted by an older chap today who was contacted by the new firearms safety authority to surrender a Remington 243 he had just registered as he had a licence renewal recently.
The 7600 is on the banned list he did not know this because he had tried to surrender it during the buy back but the cops sent him home with it saying it wasn’t on the list.
He has had his safe and guns checked recently for his renewal and nothing was said.

He said they were very aggressive today and threatening him, when he questioned them because he was genuinely confused.

I have told him that 760s and 7600 Remington pumps were gazetted and were banned

It would appear that they have effectively bilked him out of compensation.

Should he surrender it and or contact a lawyer see if compensation is still an option because the police have been incompetent and he had been genuinely trying to comply

He is asking if I can put it in my C license but it doesn’t meet the criteria I had to give as collector interest.

Tricky one that, it was done fairly quietly when they changed the rules on pump actions, not sure if it was by design or inadvertantly. I certainly didn't clock the fact that it happened, until I noticed oneday a few months later that there weren't any for sale.

Just looking at the facts of the situation, while the authorities may not hold the moral high ground on this one, moral highground is secondary to the fact that they do hold the legal high ground.

Sometimes a shit sandwich is a shit sandwich and if your lucky you can choose whether the bread is gluten free.

It would appear that there are two avenues he can pursue. Find someone who can hold it on their C licence, or hand it in and write a letter explaining his oversight. He is not the first and probably won't be the last to have missed the memo. What does demonstrate that his actions were not deceptive or deviant in intent, is that he registered it (Clearly not the actions of a man hoping to knowingly retain a prohibited arms item). This is the part that would weight things in favour of the authorities seeing the situation for what it is and potentially paying some compensation.

Hand it in promptly, argue about the how and why after.
As above shit sandwich....your choice white or grain bread, seek legal advice about compensation if you think it's worth it, but I suspect the legal costs would outweigh any compensation (refer to earler shit sandwich comment).

So if Pump Actions are now banned
What next ?
Straight pull bolt Actions are at pretty quick !

Werent pump action rifles banned during the buy back I think, close to 5 years ago.

Ive seen guys shoot nearly as fast with a bolt action, pretty impressive to watch

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Originally Posted by akaroa1

So if Pump Actions are nuw banned
What next ?
Straight pull bolt Actions are at pretty quick !

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No if, centrefire pump actions are illegal.
I believe one of the reasons straight pulls were allowed and pump actions not was to do with the fact you have to break stance to cycle a straight pull, but not with a pump....don't quote me on that though.

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Originally Posted by jim160

Werent pump action rifles banned during the buy back I think, close to 5 years ago.

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He is not the first I would bet and won't be the last. I am totally sure there are many many many people who are blissfully unaware their "insert banned firearm name/type" is actually banned and will only find out when they register. After all it was only "those black military guns" that were banned was it not!!

Yes I know that's not the case but an awful lot of people think that's all that was banned.

I think best course of action would be to surrender and then engage a lawyer in any case as it may affect his "fit and proper" status and by extension his renewal approval.

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Originally Posted by mikee

He is not the first I would bet and won't be the last. I am totally sure there are many many many people who are blissfully unaware their "insert banned firearm name/type" is actually banned and will only find out when they register. After all it was only "those black military guns" that were banned was it not!!

Yes I know that's not the case but an awful lot of people think that's all that was banned.

I think best course of action would be to surrender and then engage a lawyer in any case as it may affect his "fit and proper" status and by extension his renewal approval.

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They find out when they register or when they try to sell their Ruger Model 44 on the yellow site, whichever event occurs first. There were bids on the auction in the few hours it remained up before being pulled.

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Originally Posted by akaroa1

So if Pump Actions are now banned
What next ?
Straight pull bolt Actions are at pretty quick !

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As mentioned, became prohibited firearms not long after the original buy back. There was a secondary buy back for the pump actions. Tube magazine pump actions are were not affected. Just the ones with detachable box magazines.

IIRC the straight pulls were actually approved for import/manufacture after the legislation changed on pump actions.

I have used a spring assisted straight pull, I actually wasn't very impressed with it. It was like the rifle equivalent of an abflex or a theraband.

When the 'BUYBACK" happened it was clearly stated and advertised by the Police Firearms team that the net was wide and included some pumps,lever actions and even magazines of a large capacity.The problem arose because it was rushed,people did not believe it would happen,and hoped it would go away just as some still cling to the hope the registory will go away.

Important
Centrefire pump-action rifles
Centrefire pump-action rifles that are capable of being used with a detachable magazine, or that have
a non-detachable magazine (tubular or otherwise) that is capable of holding more than 10 cartridges
commensurate with that firearm’s chamber size are prohibited firearms.

Soper 1882 patent single shot rifle had a reputed rate of fire of 60 rounds per minute

https://youtu.be/q5bQ1cJRtsA?si=oCPuintXevpJx8u4

For the most part, there are a lot of firearms owners out there that didn't follow the news, aren't on this site and don't necessarily have anything to do with anyone else. Them along with most normal people that have nothing to do with firearms don't realize it isn't just the evil black guns that were banned.
If you aren't in a club and only follow the news you just won't know.
I don't recall being sent out a general description from the rozzers as such but I was a bit more informed.
Old mate with a bolt 22, a sxs shotty and a pump centerfire probably stopped paying attention after they said all the semis were to be scratched.
But yes I reckon he will be shafted.
He hasn't tried to hide it, far from it but they don't care and all the money is now gone and they definitely don't care.
They struggled to care about ripping people off then. Won't be any better now
As such

Ok so Joe owns a Remington pump shotgun and is lucky enough to have one of the rifled barrels for it...legal or not. Joe's mate Fred has a mossberg500 and one of them fancy rifled chokes.legal or not??

I think as each type that was added to the gazetted list of prohibited firearms types was added by name/model those would seem to be ok as they aren't on the list, aren't a "centerfire rifle", don't have a detachable magazine and discharge a shotshell type cartridge. But then I could be well wrong too...

I think we all recognise it has to go, because “the law”, we all know the law is an ass in this case
, but he has been threatened during phone calls despite the fact he has tried to be compliant and is in this situation because he has been given quite frankly, incompetent advice by sworn police officers on two seperate occasions.
I think the next step is to gather all the names of the relevant enforcement officers here and forward this information to those who are currently dealing with Nicole McKee as long as he is willing to take it further.
I have come to the conclusion after a few calls tonight that this pump rifle detached mag ban is not widely known amongst the casual firearms using community.
Thanks for the input guys.

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Originally Posted by csmiffy

For the most part, there are a lot of firearms owners out there that didn't follow the news, aren't on this site and don't necessarily have anything to do with anyone else. Them along with most normal people that have nothing to do with firearms don't realize it isn't just the evil black guns that were banned.
If you aren't in a club and only follow the news you just won't know.
I don't recall being sent out a general description from the rozzers as such but I was a bit more informed.
Old mate with a bolt 22, a sxs shotty and a pump centerfire probably stopped paying attention after they said all the semis were to be scratched.
But yes I reckon he will be shafted.
He hasn't tried to hide it, far from it but they don't care and all the money is now gone and they definitely don't care.
They struggled to care about ripping people off then. Won't be any better now
As such

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I was talking to a guy just a coule days ago about some rifles he needed storage for as he did not have room in his safe- They were a relatives who may have passed ....I asked if they were on the register and he had absolutley no idea what I was talking about- He was quite surprised to find out that he may need to register his firearms soon. And I am sure he wont be the only one.

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Originally Posted by Surat

He said they were very aggressive today and threatening him, when he questioned them because he was genuinely confused.

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thats how they roll.........

they arent capable of discussion and explanation in the first instance they are enforcers of the law not abjudicators
as said in an earlier post hand it in or give it to someone that has the correct endorsement, they already have him bent over a barrel so might as well smile and take it like a man and then say thankyou... ive said it before we are outliers of society in theiir eyes and wont be treated as equally valued members of society . the sooner FSA is taken out of their control and given to someone more qualified the better.

That's a fairly big assumption to make, I'm not saying it's right or wrong but there are many factors unknown to anyone except the fal holder and the person he was dealing with. There is no recording of the call, no transcript no evidence whatsoever.
So maybe let's not jump on the anti, hate the popo, we've all been dicked over band wagon based on what's been said here.
There are many possibilities that could have led the fal holder in question to feel like he was being threatened including (my own speculation here) language barrier, culture barrier, confusing strong assertive robust conversation with threatening (ie: if you don't hand this in immediately you will face prosecution for unlawful possession and face the possibility of loosing you FAL).
It is not a far stretch to suggest that the FAL holder in question here is feeling concerned and intimidated having had these discussions (which we are not privy to) and even feeling a little hard done by for not receiving compensation (rightly so it's a shit sandwich) and having an emotional response to some direct and pointed conversation.
From the other side you have to understand that the FSA has been made aware of a prohibited firearm and their responsibility is to have it surrendered ASAP so they are unlikely to mince words when it comes to these conversations, that doesn't necessarily translate to threatening.

This is all speculation as I don't know what was said or what context it was said in.

If this thread continues to head down the anti gov, anti police, anti authority rabbit hole it will be either A locked or B deleted.

I cannot stress strongly enough the O.P's friend should hand it in at the earliest opportunity, document all interactions and seek actual legal advice after.

1 last point all phone calls with FSA are recorded for quality control and training, if the FAL holder in question genuinely believes he was being threatened lay a complaint with the FSA.

Pumps were banned on the second round along with certain types of pistol chassis IIRC.
He probably tried handing it in on the first go, which caused the confusion.

I had a Troy PAR I had to hand in. I had to make a special trip to Masterton to do it as the second round was on a lot smaller scale.
Unfortunately, he seems to have been caught in the crossfire. It's not uncommon to see banned items on trademe that folks don't realize are illegal now.

@Tedz50 “some pumps,lever actions and even magazines”. What lever actions? There’s heaps of them around the place.

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Originally Posted by woods223

@Tedz50 “some pumps,lever actions and even magazines”. What lever actions? There’s heaps of them around the place.

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Lever actions with fixed magazine capacity greater than 10 rounds (common with .22 and some longer barrelled pistol calibre lever actions).
Also some bolt actions (again the ones with a mag capacity greater than 10 rounds).

Lots of people got good money for Grandads shot out BSA or their $250 Norinco .22 Lever.

Goes to show what an abysmal failure the communications have been on the firearms law changes - 5 years later and people still have no idea what's going on or how it works.

As with anything police related these days, get him to call a firearms lawyer - Grant Fletcher or Nick Taylor are both good options. The initial call will be free where the can give him an idea of the process, options, and cost. At worst they'll be able to help him navigate dealing with the police without them coming after him for anything else, and at best may be able to push back in some places.

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Originally Posted by dannyb

1 last point all phone calls with FSA are recorded for quality control and training, if the FAL holder in question genuinely believes he was being threatened lay a complaint with the FSA.

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Absolute waste of time making a complaint, they will at best miss the point, slide and gaslight the complaint, even when they were clearly in the wrong. Save the ink and paper.

Pick your battles very carefully to avoid stickig your head to far above the parapet, this was actually said by the interviewer when he realised that he may not have been quite correct. (actually he was far off the mark)