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This "news" item is hidden behind the NZ Herald pay-wall https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politi...IGXIBIQUR3LJY/
Firearms Minister Nicole McKee wants the gun registry gone – review says she should keep it
Note how the headline refers to Nicole as the "Firearms Minister". I was unaware of such an entity in the NZ Parliament.
Would be interesting to see what the actual report is.
Remember folks, for the registry to be gone, "our" Minister needs every bit of support that we can muster.
49er
Minister McKee responds...
Someone has decided that they would give confidential information about the review of the firearms registry to the media.
Whether that is designed to create a certain narrative, or influence what Cabinet decides, it is wrong and needs to be investigated.
Let me be clear with those people: it is my Cabinet colleagues who have the responsibility of deciding whether the registry stays or goes, not them.
Cabinet has not even had the opportunity to consider this information and someone has decided to make it public. Totally unacceptable.
its getting more and more clear "we" are getting screwed over... again...
Yep, but going by the stats. regarding submissions made “we” haven’t helped ourselves. Way too much apathy out there.Quote:
Originally Posted by STC
yes but also... its a convenient excuse.Quote:
Originally Posted by woods223
I wonder what the outcome would be if there was a simple referendum. Registration yes/no.
depends:Quote:
Originally Posted by Tahr
would the populace be informed correctly about costs, risks, and benefits (or lack thereof)?
probably not...
If the facts were laid out then I think the average voter would vote no.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tahr
Unlike seatbelts or speed limits,there is no tangible public safety benefit to a registry. It's just that the Police " think it's a good idea".
I dont believe the issue is the Register per se - the real issue is the inability of the Police to operate said Register even adequately , whilst safeguarding our private information.
And that doesnt even touch on letting them write the legislation to suit themselves.....
If that is correct from Nicole's comment about it being a leak then that's come from someone fairly highly up in the machine - and that in itself is a reason why the registry is a bad idea.
You people have to understand one thing . You have to be naieve to the point of abject supidity if you think that the Registry is going away . Even though I have not sucumbed to registering I know that it is only a matter of time until I will be foced to do it.
The fact is for NZ First and National to vote for a scraping of the Registery system is to admit that their support for it previously was WRONG . Do you think any politician is going to admit that when all the emotional crap put forward by the Hand Wringers and Harpes screaming from the lofty heights goes on .
In effect where screwed on the alter of expediency and power hungry muppets called Politicians who don't give a toss about reality , just how much power they can wield.
Confidential information being leaked by someone who had no authority to do so... my, how much that sounds like the reason we didn't want the registry in the first place.
They were not on the last referendum, 49 - 51% and the gubbermint said, 'Nah, we don't need a recount the answer is pretty clear with a landslide against..... blah blah blah....... '.Quote:
Originally Posted by STC
How about this for an idea . Given that the registry might be forced on the gun community.
Rule is that -
Only the Firearms officer for each area has the authority to interrogate the registry in detail of serial numbers of guns, calibre, mafr name, and so on.
If other normal duty cops want to see things all that can find out is that Joe blow has the following types of fire arms
Registered shooter xyz Licence number xya
Handgun - one off
Rimfire - three off
Shotgun - one off
So if there is major data leak or even a minor one in a given area the fingerpointing can go to just one person.
It also would mean that front line police could visit an address and know what they should find but only the general types.
That makes it much less of a potential shopping list for crims.
if an ordinary police officer is found to have entered the registry at precision level (obviously there is table of police IDnumbers and data acess levels stored in the system ) that should be the basis for an internal investigation and potential dismissal.
The other thing that needs to be looked at very carefully is the ability to take USB drives into the FSA in Wellington and download information . Either all the machines have to have all spare USB ports physically locked out and basically carrying a non police registered USB drive (which is never to leave the building) needs to be a sackable offense. Exxon Mobil have that sort of discipline and I have had to work under it in Melbourne. you can be sacked for leaving your PC not locked out and going to lunch .
Firearm data for thousands of gun owners - all of whom could be subject to burglary is as important as Exxon -M's commercial and technical information.
What about inserting clause in the legislation that if a policeman or woman is traceable to a leak which results in a burglary(s) then if there is incompetence or intent that person has to pay for all loses suffered by the firearms owners and any enforcement in the civil courts would be at the cost of the government . That would keep people pretty focused.
TEF
"What about inserting clause in the legislation that if a policeman or woman is traceable to a leak which results in a burglary(s) then if there is incompetence or intent that person has to pay for all loses suffered by the firearms owners and any enforcement in the civil courts would be at the cost of the government . That would keep people pretty focused."
Enforced by Police investigating Police, and they laughed and laughed. It wouldn't be the IPCA but their own internal outfit. And they laughed and laughed some more.
Sack the perps Nicole.Quote:
Originally Posted by BSA
Greetings All,
I have long thought that scrapping firearms registration was a dead duck. Only ACT has pushed it and we are now halfway to the next election. The last timeline I saw for the Arms Act was late 2026, just before the election. Really?
GPM.
A very good article on the Good Oil blog. I have put the link but you will have to log in as a guest to read it. It is not a political diatribe but an expose' of the Register's Failings and it will only get worse.
(Excerpt)
For those skeptical of the registry’s chaos, an Official Information Act (OIA) request will provide a good laugh – or a grim one. Simply request the number of firearms with the serial number 1887, or 10/22. The paper trail will likely reveal a litany of errors, delays and excuses, confirming what McKee and firearms owners already know: the registry is a bureaucratic boondoggle. It’s not about safety: it’s about control and it’s failing spectacularly.
Nicole McKee’s Fight Against the Failing Gun Registry: A Battle for Common Sense
https://goodoil.news/nicole-mckees-f...-common-sense/
Its here to stay. They got your votes, you can piss off untill the next election now
I feel the registry will stay in some format and initially that didn’t really bother me, except:
*When I registered my stuff upon moving south I was advised Police didn’t need to inspect my security even though I insisted.
* My Swedish rifles (CG and Husqvarna of various dates/models) were supposedly not on the list that registry had. I was advised they would be logged under ‘Custom builds’. Go figure.
*We know that departmental ‘leakage’ is happening at all levels of govt, so imo, data will never be secure.
* The register may well become another Carjam site, where upon logging on, any investigator could find all details of ownership. Ask the French what happened with their firearms register when Nazis invaded. Hint: ‘Thank you for the list monsieur; first we find Pierre…’.
Cynical I know, but at my age and having worked for Govt agencies most of my life, I wouldn’t trust any security system.
Here's the free version of the NZ Herald article, extracted from behind the pay-wall https://archive.ph/UvRpq
I think the registry will stay. The general public really are not interested in weather it will achieve anything or not. It seems like a good idea, and increasingly gun ownership will struggle for tolerance.
The non act governing parties dont have any incentive to change things. It's not an election winner for them, and more likely to be a point on labours scorecard.
physically the registry right now doesn't impact us greatly. For example Im registered, It wasn't hard to do, and doesn't restrict my use of firearms to any extent. In fact less so than other sections of the arms act.
Philosophically it does. It has the potential to be miss used, could be a very real avenue for firearm confiscation. We have to hope that that never eventuates. It probably will. Given history it's at least more likely than not.
I appreciate Act and Nicole especially for trying. I will be elated for us and them if its achieved.
I will realistically not be upset at them if its not.
Yeah. You have put into words what I think too. You do your bit to try to influence the outcome, but be prepared to shrug and walk away. Others will never give up and good on them. Ive got other priorities.Quote:
Originally Posted by whanahuia
Are there any legal issues for the Forum sharing that? It is the digital equivalent of nicking a paper from the supermarket.Quote:
Originally Posted by no1_49er
Same. Cant see the Register being a real help, based on the Australian experience, but hope it wont be a harm. It's a pity the funding couldn't be used more productively.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tahr
What I would like to see is a compromise - if the less-familiar side get their Register, it comes with a return of E-Category for all semi-automatic centrefire rifles.
It's posted on COLFO's website.Quote:
Originally Posted by Oscar
If you've got a problem with that, either you complain to them, or don't open the link yourself.
Oscar's concern was for the Forum wasn't it?Quote:
Originally Posted by no1_49er
Quote:
These high-velocity firearms are capable of destroying humans with the most horrendous injuries. Fired at the right place, a head will disintegrate
My head disintegrated by reading that.
And the picture halfway down with an OTs-14 Groza :wtfsmilie: How many of those are in NZ?
My eyes were spinning like roulette wheels upon reading the emotional clap-trap by the predictable anti-gun types, my head almost exploded :wtfsmilie:
So much emotion, so little logic…
Once your guns are registered, they really are not yours anymore. You just get to use them until the government takes them from you.
Confiscation ultimately is the real driver behind this,its happened in the UK,Sweden,Norway,Germany,Australia and New Zealand too. When Norway implemented registration it was done officially as a way to prevent communist factions from arming themselves, the cabinet minister who pushed hard for registration was later strongly suspected to have had ties to the Kremlin.So the registration myth was a typical game of Soviet Chess.
There was never to be a central gun register here,that was in order for the cops to be able to destroy all the records incase of invasion. Curiously Norway has moved to a central gun registry at a pretty inopportune time to do so.
Compromise is not in the opposition's lexicon.Quote:
Originally Posted by Oscar
Yes, how many critical timeframe cancer treatments, critical timeframe heart condition interventions and critical care staffers could that money be used for? It is in real terms the equivalent of Nelson Hospital having the issues they are having, or being correctly funded and resourced. The Registry is a useless panacea that in real terms is killing vulnerable Kiwi's.Quote:
Originally Posted by Oscar
Apart from that, if it can be kept secure, the inaccuracies and "close enough's" removed and/or corrected and not abused by power crazed idiots who manage to find themselves in a position of power I don't see much downside...
I put the following comment on the goodoil article comments section this morning\;
10 hours ago
I am in two minds about this. There seems very little chance of the register working, and a lot of potential for the data to leak. But a lot of the public believe it will stop crime, and a lot of MPs agree. Ultimately in democracy the people should get what they want, perhaps McKee and ACT should just express strongly worded objections, clearly state the issues, and wait a few years to be proven correct. Personally I would far prefer they focused on the semi auto issue, and get wider and easier access for shooters for pest control and competitions, rather than fight against the register.
ACT are in an awkward political position here in that any future firearms crime will be blamed on them regardless of what they do, or on logic. From the perspective of someone wanting wider semi auto access, I see political advantages in keeping the register. We all know that criminals are importing drugs, guns etc regularly. If we get wider access to semi autos and maintain a register of all legal firearms then comparing criminal use to legal use will be easier. Even Cahill might have difficulty blaming licensed shooters for crimes once the register is fully implemented, and unlicensed firearms alone are turning up in crime stats.
So I think the register will be a very costly failure, but it's not in the interests of legal shooters to oppose it. We have more to gain politically from keeping it than the anti-gun crowd do, who are creating their own failure.
As for the impact of data breaches, yes this is an issue, particualrly for inner city people who'se neighbours have no idea they own firearms. For farmers such as myself it's far less of an issue, I don't know any farms without firearms so the criminals already know where to look for them. We are already potential targets. From a future political potential I suggest register data breaches will gain far more sympathy for the legal shooters than for the rabid anti-gun crowd.
The register will inevitably prove to be a costly waste of item but I think shooters have more to lose than gain now by opposing it, if it was dumped we'd still be blamed for all future firearms crime, keep it in place and the blame shifts firmly away from us back to criminals, and eventually the public will be looking for answers to budget blow outs and future firearm crime that will by then be clearly shown to not be caused by us.
Didn't the recent government law consultation clearly say that the firearms registry was out of scope for any submissions?
Yes, nor did it say there would be opportunity to make further submissions.Quote:
Originally Posted by John Duxbury
Stop pearl-clutching and try living with a sense of adventureQuote:
Originally Posted by Oscar
Ben makes good points upthread but I honestly believe that the tactical political sense of who wins and loses will be eclipsed by the first home invasion that can be traced back to the inevitable data breach from the govt - this is a shopping list for crooks
Nicking other people’s work isn’t adventure to me. YMMVQuote:
Originally Posted by 308
Stop just giving people shit and try to add something useful for once.Quote:
Originally Posted by 308
@308 the problem is we already know of some cases where firearms are being stolen from collections by criminals. It's not news. Every time I pull the trigger I have it in the back of my mind that some of the nastiest Mongrel Mob guys in the country are living within 5km of me and can likely hear me and know where the guns are. So far it hasn't been a problem but one day it might be. The register does not make me any less safe I think.Quote:
Originally Posted by 308
Once the media get hold of the first story about registered firearms being stolen to order, or police finding masses of never registered firearms in criminal hands, the blame has to go away from us.