ReLicensing question - Section L

Question L states;
" A firearms licence holder needs to consider all aspects of firearms safety, including the safety of people who may haveaccess to locations where you store firearms. A firearms licence cannot be issued if another person who is not fit and
proper to possess firearms is reasonably likely to obtain access to any of your firearms or airguns.
Please provide details of:
» All persons over the age of 18, who reside at your home address or who may have free or unsupervised access to
your home address, and any additional addresses you have listed, where firearms and/or ammunition may be stored.
If your spouse/partner or parent was listed as a referee, they do not need to be included here
If you need to add more than three people to this list, please record these in section O of this form. "

At first i interpreted this as - "Hey, who has access to the HOUSE where things are locked up? "

Then reading further into the text it then states " A firearms licence cannot be issued if another person who is not fit and
proper to possess firearms is reasonably likely to obtain access to any of your firearms or airguns. "


So, are they asking who will also have access to the HOUSE, or to the Toys under Lock and key?? And if the former, why would they need a FAL if only to the House?

This question I feel is very ambiguous.. anyone else fall over on this one, before I call the local Arms Officer for clarification?

Cheers

I havnt had to to do this yet but believe the question is that you must list everybody who resides or has normal access to your house where your storage is.

Now if one of those persons is not fit and proper, known to police, convicted felon etc you are going to have a problem.

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Originally Posted by Bobba

I havnt had to to do this yet but believe the question is that you must list everybody who resides or has normal access to your house where your storage is.

Now if one of those persons is not fit and proper, known to police, convicted felon etc you are going to have a problem.

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Do you take a punt on burglars!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bobba

Now if one of those persons is not fit and proper, known to police, convicted felon etc you are going to have a problem.

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I think you could add known mental health condition to the list
Domestic violence
Restraining order
Etc

I asked clarification on this question once and was told that they consider anyone who comes and goes freely from your house. They either reside there or have a key, or they could be in the house when you are not there. As opposed to a visitor or guest who is only at your house when they come to see you. I wondered why this would be an issue if they don’t have the keys to the safe, but I suppose they have plenty of time to look for the keys if they are allowed in the house all day, which a burglar does not. Easy to answer no to that question and discuss it with the interviewer on the day.

A couple of recent burglary events that have happened to people I know, in each case the burglar turned up in a semi-trades looking vehicle, spent all day there, was seen by the neighbours etc etc but raised no alarm with anyone as during the day and not acting sketchy at all. Different crims too, two cases the guy was caught (nothing recovered) and the third not as yet. So a burg could have all day to scope for keys etc etc - and to be fair most places as we all know are shockingly easy to gain entry to without the official key being required. The story there is always be home for trades or work so your neighbours expect that as the pattern and having someone turn up unescorted is not normal...

One of those ones where the crim was caught was a landlord getting work done at an inconvenient time for the tenants and not backing off on it - tenants should have said piss off but caved. I always recommend that tenants put a clause on their agreement for their security protection - no work without them being there. Lost a LOT of jewellery and expensive stuff on that one, crim got a good lag though.

They want to know who lives at your residence and also who else has regular access.
They will also want to interview them ALL as if being vetted themselves.

And the age is 16, not the 18 they list on the forms etc. They made a right royal fuss about interviewing my son who had just turned 16. Prob made it worse that I pointed out their own requirements and that they were asking for additional not mentioned or requored anywhere in legislation.

It's weird if you think about it. I don't take my gun safe key in the shower with me, so wife could help herself. What if you have friends visiting... overthinking it for sure!

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Originally Posted by MB

It's weird if you think about it. I don't take my gun safe key in the shower with me, so wife could help herself. What if you have friends visiting... overthinking it for sure!

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Unless your wife has a FAL, she should not have access to/knowledge of location of, the safe key

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Originally Posted by Gibo

Unless your wife has a FAL, she should not have access to/knowledge of location of, the safe key

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Yes, totally, I hide my keys all the time from my wife.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MB

It's weird if you think about it. I don't take my gun safe key in the shower with me, so wife could help herself. What if you have friends visiting... overthinking it for sure!

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That's exactly why they want to know, if someone living at the house with you is likely to help themselves to your firearms..

My wife doesn't know where my safe keys are, my nephew does as he has a FAL, he doesn't live here though and doesn't have a key to the house.

They asked this question when I recently renewed my licence.
I was asked who resided at home and if these was anyone who has unrestricted access to the house who did not live there.
When they interviewed me at home thay clarified who resided there and asked if they had access to my firearms, the simple answer was that only my son and I who have licences knew where the safe keys were kept. Very simple as all they were concerned about was who had access to the firearms.
They asked my wife and she told them she did not know where the safe keys were kept. They were happy with this.

I made it very clear to the vettor that my family have the same access to my safe as the vetter does to his bosses wife snatch.
He knows exactly where it is but doesn't have access or permission to get into it.

Also they wanted my son had to have a separate safe for his FAL with no access to mine, and vise versa for me.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cambo

I made it very clear to the vettor that my family have the same access to my safe as the vetter does to his bosses wife snatch.
He knows exactly where it is but doesn't have access or permission to get into it.

Also they wanted my son had to have a separate safe for his FAL with no access to mine, and vise versa for me.

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That sounds more like a want rather than a need :wtfsmilie:
As long as both have the same license there shouldn't be an issue, same as me storing rifles for a mate.

My brother has a spare key for my safe and I know the combo for his, just in cast of emergency.

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Originally Posted by No good names left

That sounds more like a want rather than a need :wtfsmilie:
As long as both have the same license there shouldn't be an issue, same as me storing rifles for a mate.

My brother has a spare key for my safe and I know the combo for his, just in cast of emergency.

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They made a fuss about it and I wasn't in a position to challenge. Keep them happy.
Plus it meant more room for "all sorts of items" :thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by Gibo

Unless your wife has a FAL, she should not have access to/knowledge of location of, the safe key

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Hell yeah. No way do you want the wife knowing what's in there.

So hold on, do we need to see vetters FALs before we give them information about our storage?

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Originally Posted by vulcannz

So hold on, do we need to see vetters FALs before we give them information about our storage?

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That would probably fall under the same rules as the Military and Police where no license required for firearms stuff while on duty.

All of this stuff is VERY similar to what I see on the UK deerstalking and firearms sites - and very little of it is good. Stand by for ammo restrictions, licenses to reload ammo, pressure testing (for your safety) reloaded ammo, proof testing rebarreled rifles, all sorts of bullshit yet to be dreamed up by some polyester short wearing pencil necked wanker in Wellington..

I'll be very happy to find out in 20 years that I was just chicken little and worrying about nothing, but I don't think that will be the case.

I keep safes Keyes in another safe with a combo lock due to worrying that a burglar could find Keyes when away for extended times, got the spare key to the combo safe screwed onto a roof rafter in a very hard to reach spot.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cambo

I made it very clear to the vettor that my family have the same access to my safe as the vetter does to his bosses wife snatch.
He knows exactly where it is but doesn't have access or permission to get into it.

Also they wanted my son had to have a separate safe for his FAL with no access to mine, and vise versa for me.

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Weird, my wife used my safe for her FAL.
She didn't know where the key was or have access until she received her FAL

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Originally Posted by MB

Yes, totally, I hide my keys all the time from my wife.

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You don't want her finding out what toys you have bought without getting her permission first? Does your finance
minister wear the pants in your house? Lol

I renewed my license last winter.

Questions of access to our property weren't onerous as it is my son (with his own FAL) and my wife (no FAL).
My wife knows were the safes are and doesn't know what the safe keys look like let alone where they are stored.
My son knows what the keys look like and where the back up set is stored.

The questions the vetter asked my wife and referee were about my mental health - nothing related to firearms safety.

When the vetter checked the safes he felt for bolt heads in the safes without checking if bolts were attached and without seeing if the safes were bolted down. (I could have just glued bolt heads inside the safes.)

The vetter agreed that unless you use a bank safe the gun safes will only keep a casual thief away. An 18V cordless grinder with cutting wheel will make short work of many gun safes possibly without disturbing the neighbours.

An 18V cordless grinder with cutting wheel will make short work of many gun safes possibly without disturbing the neighbours.

Correct: Hiding them is a much better option, the safe is there to keep the Vettor happy. If they can't be seen/found the can't be stolen. A safe in and of itself is an invitation. Originally the safe was to prevent children gaining access in Firearms Safety Legislation, it is Police narrative that has changed.

My understanding is that the licience holder should have access ( ie keys ) to the safe hidden/unknown from any other unlicensed holder living in or has access to the house. That is"reasonable" in my opinion.