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Hi all, I've just passed the safety course and I'm waiting for the inspection now. I'm wondering are there any rules? When I was in shop today, I was told gun racks would fail so I bought a safe.
I try to check rules of installation but it seems there aren't any. I've gone through the Secure storage guidance for firearms that published by police and got confused. This guide says racks are options to store firearms at home. Is that true?
What shall I do to pass the inspection?
Hi
All the guideline are on the police website , basicly must be bolted to concrete floor by 2x6mm Rawl bolts and bolted to wall by 2 x 6mm bolts . They are guide lines as to what is acceptable .
Secure storage guidance for firearms is the name of the document Quote: "The cabinet should be fixed to the building on two surfaces with at least 6 mm fasteners and
fastened to a rigid surface or support such as concrete, brick or through plaster board to a stud or dwang. Fasteners of 6mm x 75mm long will ensure at least 50mm of thread is engaged in the rigid support. Use heavy gauge ‘coach’ screws anchored by at least 50mm and a large washer placed under each coach screw head into the framing. If secured into concrete, use similar gauge chemical or expanding bolts. Floor fixing to a wooden floor to be completely through the floor. The bolts should have a stout backing plate or sufficiently large washers to prevent them from being pulled through the floor"
Use 10mm minimum. Use 50 x 50 x 3mm square washers as well. Just had my safe checked a week ago and was good as gold.
Only took them 4 months to get round to it too.
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I was at the local AO office a year or so ago. A guy was asking the same question. He described the house he was building and the wall he wanted to mount it to. The officer behind the counter gave similar advice to above. Then I asked him a couple of questions; Is that art of the house built yet? And how permanent does he want it.
That par of the concrete wall was not poured yet, and he wanted it very permanent and possibly for B category. So I suggested rather than drilling into the new concrete and using expanding bolts or epoxy, that he drill holes in the boxing before the pour. Grab a couple of bolts or threaded rod (The bigger the better) and bolt them to the boxing as though it was the safe wall leaving the head of the bolt set back into where the concrete will be poured. Bent bolts are better than straight ones.....
I asked it the officer thought this would be enough and he seemed surprised. I said at the end of the day it has to be secure and this would be the easiest and most effective way I could think of. He asked how I came up with the idea and I simply said it is what I would do.
I dont want security that complies with the law. I want security that makes it as hard as I possibly can for any scum bag to remove my possessions, that I paid for, from where I want them to be. So not only does my safe exceed their specs, I have added alarms and I bike chains through the firearms inside the safe as well. Looking at cameras now as well.
All I've ever had is the vetting person give the safe a bit of a shake and go yep feels good enough to me
I just wants me security that be better than the Palmerston North Police Station...
Isn't that a typical response of many gun store employees?Quote:
Originally Posted by lhou
The Arms Regulations 1992 19 (1) (c) The holder shall take reasonable steps to ensure that any firearm in the holder’s possession is secured against theft.
Steel gun racks are currently perfectly legal as long as they have a good locking device and are secured to solid surface such as a wall stud. You should burr over or round off any exposed screw or bolt heads.
Gun cabinets (they're not safes) must also be secured against theft and there are several good suggestions already mentioned. There is currently no requirement to secure to two surfaces for an A-Cat standard firearms licence. Although obviously, the harder you make it for someone to steal your firearm/s the better it is for you. Some people will always try to do the bare minimum required though.
I look at it this way and its similar to above comments you work hard to buy these things so I don't just do the bare minimum to get a fal I do as much as possible to make it hard to steal my shit and you don't have to go overboard just put it in an out of the way place for a start where its hard or not possible to get leverage under or behind it and then use good quality fastenings into solid parts of the house if they cant get it open they will try and take the whole thing but if its to hard and takes them to long they will leave it and a black and tan security system works well also
Probably would have been better off buying the cheapest possible and save your money for a compliant safe when they change the laws
That makes zero sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by Russian 22.
It did to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tommy
What if they require more than the current 1.5 mm thick safes straight out of China? An 8 gun of those cost me 300 odd dollars.
And then you'd have to pay twice
And think about a system of inbuilt security over and above the Police requirements: what happens if a troll holds a knife to your, or your partner's neck, and says "open the safe/gun rack"?My system can deal with that scenario.
Starting at the bottom got you in that predicament. Buy a 6mm endorsed jobbie (their magic threshold, not mine, and unlikely to change as other endorsements look set and those standards still hold) and carry on.Quote:
Originally Posted by Russian 22.
Buying an 8 gun safe means you see yourself potentially with 8 guns at some stage. 8 gun safe = 8 guns, rough value a grand each = $8000, and $300 is the most you'll spend on a safe? For fucks sakes, THIS is why the cops jumped up and down worrying about A cat AR15s.
[EDIT] I have yet to encounter an A cat safe I wouldn't be able to breach in under a minute without anything more than a foot long pry bar or similar (standard equipment for a burglar), and people keep multi-thousand dollar rifles in them, the mind boggles
I knew a wise man who had a gunsafe behind his bedroom door, bolted to the (very crumbly) brick and plaster with the smallest rawlbolts you can imagine. He plastered the outside with firearms related stickers - mainly Colt and Smith and Wesson, so it was glaringly obvious as to what was inside.... Except that he had filled the safe with about 70kg of water pipe offcuts. His real safe was discreetly hidden elsewhere, disguised as an electrical breaker box. What burglar will notice that there are 2 in the house anyway?
I had my inspection recently, I passed with the gun city 4 gun rack I originally installed for my Air rifle, they are often recommended against by inspectors and they want them to be in a location "not easily seen or located by someone not familiar with the property"Quote:
Originally Posted by lhou
A few things I did that may have helped with passing
from the store they only have 3 screw holes - and often they are not all in the right place to connect with beams - even when all 3 are into solid timber it does not feel sturdy/securely fastened - so I increase the number of holes and screws to 8
While the inspector was going to pass the rack he was much happier when I showed him the photos of the (formally known as) E-cat safe I had just purchased via trademe but had not yet picked up or installed.
My personal opinion is things like racks are better of used only for things like air rifles, or "ticking the must have storage at home check box" if you don't normally have firearms at home. however if your serious about things you should really get a good heavy duty safe, some safes sold that currently comply are very light weight - and have it bolted down
That is why I passed my check using the rack I already had for my air rifle, then went and purchased an ecat safe when I found a really good one at a good price - I figure regardless of how much they increase the safe requirements for A-Cat they are unlikely to increase it beyond what they use to accept for E-cat.Quote:
Originally Posted by Russian 22.
I was a student and not really in a position to get anything more at the time. It was a means to an end. I never said that I won't spend more than 300 bucks on a safe. Just that is what mine cost me when I first started out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tommy
But as you said. What was E cat compliant probably won't be changing anytime soon so worth getting. Which I am going to do.
That's sound logic.Quote:
Originally Posted by humvee
I bought a 3mm one:thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by Russian 22.
My landloard is ok with holes on walls but not on the floor. I think gun rack will be a better solution for me. I will use my safe un-bolt as gun bolt and ammo storage.Quote:
Originally Posted by humvee
BTW, are there any hunting zones and ranges near Hamilton? Are there any clubs in Hamilton?
have a look at where to hunt on the doc sight
Arms Regulations 1992 (SR 1992/346) (as at 12 April 2019) 19 Conditions relating to security precautions – New Zealand Legislation
That is what the law says.
No real specifics on how it has to be secured.
Just has to stop a child and an opportunist thief from accessing your firearms
I think doing the bare minimum is foolish, do the best you can without going overboard.
If someone really wants your guns they are going to get your guns.
As someone else has said.
Place the safe in such a way its harder for someone to pry/lever at the safe.
Personally i would get an alarm system before upgrading my A cat safe to B/E level. Obviously renters might not be able to.
For similar or not much more than B/E cat safe you can get a certified alarm system. Possibly even back it up with a do it yourself camera system.
It will act as a deterrent for your whole house getting burgled, if they do break in and it goes of it will drastically limit the time they want to spend in your house. Grab what they can and run.
If you have an E cat safe and no alarm they might have a bloody good go at getting the safe off the wall or getting it open if they feel they have time.
Added bonus of an alarm is that cheaper insurance premiums usually and it protects your whole house contents not just your guns.