Thread: Safe transportation - legal requirements?

Originally Posted by yosamitesam

Thank you Kiwi Sapper - nice outfit, first Boer War? I don't have the red tunic but I do second boer war re-enactment!

24th Regiment of Foot 23 /24 January 1879 :>)

There is no law against loaded magazines in a vehicle provided that the magazines aren't attached to the firearm.

Land Transport (Road User) Rule 2004 (SR 2004/427) (as at 01 October 2018) 7.21 Loaded firearms – New Zealand Legislation

It actually does not define differences between loaded magazine FITTED TO or SEPARATE to the Firearm.

Loaded firearms
(1)
A driver must not operate a motor vehicle on or in which is carried any firearm, airgun, or restricted weapon (as defined in section 2 of the Arms Act 1983) that is loaded with a bullet, cartridge, missile, or projectile, whether in its breech, barrel, chamber, or magazine.

The act was probably designed prior to detachable magazines becoming common place in NZ

Originally Posted by Preacher

It actually does not define differences between loaded magazine FITTED TO or SEPARATE to the Firearm.

Loaded firearms
(1)
A driver must not operate a motor vehicle on or in which is carried any firearm, airgun, or restricted weapon (as defined in section 2 of the Arms Act 1983) that is loaded with a bullet, cartridge, missile, or projectile, whether in its breech, barrel, chamber, or magazine.

Bullets in a separate (non-inserted) magazine does not make a gun "loaded".

No, you are correct it does not @Cordite.

Hence my edit.
P.s it sucks trying to use my phone to type more than a sentence.

Unfortunately we are not talking about common sense definition though.

The legal wording states, whether in its breech, barrel, chamber, or magazine.

Could for arguments sakes the loading of a separate magazine still fall under that vague legal definition. I for one don't think the 15 second loading of my 5 shot rifle is worth the hassle.

The wording may be daft or out of date, but it is the law and I don’t think now is the time that I want to test it.

Originally Posted by Preacher

Unfortunately we are not talking about common sense definition though.

The legal wording states, whether in its breech, barrel, chamber, or magazine.

Could for arguments sakes the loading of a separate magazine still fall under that vague legal definition. I for one don't think the 15 second loading of my 5 shot rifle is worth the hassle.

The legal wording states that:

A driver must not operate a motor vehicle on or in which is carried any firearm, airgun, or restricted weapon (as defined in section 2 of the Arms Act 1983) that is loaded with a bullet, cartridge, missile, or projectile, whether in its breech, barrel, chamber, or magazine.

If the magazine is not in the gun, the gun is not loaded.

Obviously it's different for a non-removable magazine like a tube magazine, but if a detachable magazine, even if it has rounds in it, is out of the gun, the gun is unloaded.

Originally Posted by yosamitesam

Thanks Cordite. The car/pub point above is tricky, I've known many hunters enjoying a good lunch after a hunt and the guns have to be stored somewhere. What is the ruling on this? Must guns always be accompanied 100% of the time even if secured in vehicle and hidden?

Basically cannot be 'unsupervised', which is not actually defined anywhere so open to interpretation. If you can sit by the window and park where you can see the car I'd say its clearly supervised, if the car is alarmed and you can hear it... maybe? Its a grey area AFAIK.

Personally if I'm going to be away from the car for more than just paying for petrol etc I generally have the bolt separate and slip it into my pocket anyway, even when the car is locked/alarmed. Doesn't take much effort and its another layer of security. Obviously not such an easy option for firearms without easily removable bolts though.

The magazine thing also seems to be a grey area (when not installed the magazine is probably not part of the gun? especially if you have another empty magazine installed) but it doesn't really take any effort to load a magazine when you reach the hunting area rather than before going there so why risk it.

Originally Posted by Preacher

Unfortunately we are not talking about common sense definition though.

The legal wording states, whether in its breech, barrel, chamber, or magazine.

Could for arguments sakes the loading of a separate magazine still fall under that vague legal definition. I for one don't think the 15 second loading of my 5 shot rifle is worth the hassle.

I believe it has been tested in the USA, similar laws, the dictionary had its moment of fame and sorted the case. It is not loaded if mag is out, even right next to it and ready to be inserted.

A NZ lawyer is free to quote cases from anywhere as long as they have a bearing. A judge hearing about such a precedent case will reach for his or her NZ dictionary in the hope of an early lunch.

Originally Posted by GravelBen

Basically cannot be 'unsupervised', which is not actually defined anywhere so open to interpretation. If you can sit by the window and park where you can see the car I'd say its clearly supervised, if the car is alarmed and you can hear it... maybe? Its a grey area AFAIK.

Personally if I'm going to be away from the car for more than just paying for petrol etc I generally have the bolt separate and slip it into my pocket anyway, even when the car is locked/alarmed. Doesn't take much effort and its another layer of security. Obviously not such an easy option for firearms without easily removable bolts though.

I would just take the bolt with me, cover the gun, close windows (unless you have a rottweiler on the back seat), at least you have taken some reasonable steps, that is not what cops would interpret as an unattended car, so Mike from the police firearms group says. Other reason I don't think they'd press charges if you do the above, read up on Richard Lincoln and what happened to him when he stuck to the law as it is written when he needed to take a leak. And no, don't want to start that debate up again.

How about one of you guys load up a mag put it in your car and get the police to check your car and let us know what happens

Again though.

"That is loaded with a bullet, cartridge, missile, or projectile whether in its breech, barrel, chamber, or magazine

It does not differentiate if that magazine is fitted to its proper place or not.

Thus the gray definition

Originally Posted by Preacher

Again though.

"That is loaded with a bullet, cartridge, missile, or projectile whether in its breech, barrel, chamber, or magazine

It does not differentiate if that magazine is fitted to its proper place or not.

Thus the gray definition

It DOES differentiate, in that if the magazine is not fitted the gun is not loaded.

Please explain to us how a gun with a detachable magazine can be a loaded gun if the magazine is not fitted.

Lets just skip the irrelevant wording and try this...

Which is loaded with a bullet in its magazine. It does not state the rifle is loaded, only the magazine.

It also does not state location of magazine.