I found the comment about people choosing to manufacture their own ammo particularly ridiculous
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I found the comment about people choosing to manufacture their own ammo particularly ridiculous
Nowhere in there did I see any mention of improving the security of firearm storage.
Given that most of the recently stolen "high powered assault rifles" have been A category firearms and that the minimum security requirements for this class of firearm is woefully inadequate, surely a fundamental principle of preventing these from falling into the wrong hands should be to ensure that they're difficult to get hold of in the first instance?
Instead of going after things like magazines (the horse has looooong since bolted on that) and proposing buybacks (expensive), perhaps the government should look at offering a subsidy to those A category FLIC holders to upgrade their firearms storage to B/C/E standard as a more cost effective option and without pissing off thousands of people in the process.
I lol'd at the proposed prohibition orders. If a criminal's offered an illegal firearm from someone, does one really think they're going to stop and think "hmm, I've a prohibition order against me, I shouldn't do this"? Probably not because criminals tend not to obey laws. That's why they're called criminals.
Just enforce the laws already on the books with regard to theft of firearms, illegal possession of firearms etc.
With some of the blades and cutting wheels available today, a E cat safe is no hassle to enter. The deterrent needs to be in the courts, not the licenced firearm owner.
Had a quick read, lots of generalisations and exaggerations.
The comments around AR rifles in the latest minutes were incorrect, and angled to produce an effect.
Real shame, those people were meant to be intelligent.
True that - what worries me the most is the idiocy of governments when it comes to data security - they know where all the E-cat owners live and that would be a helluva shopping list. I don't see any proposals on the part of them to secure that information above and beyond what they have already
I recently had an exasperated chuckle at a recent episode of police 10-7 where a shotgun was used in an offense. All the emphasis was on removing the firearm from circulation rather than catching the person who used it/acquired it.
And far more motor vehicles are used by the crims, even in order to kill people. And knives, baseball bats, tools, .... Quite simply they need to sort the problem (crims) rather than ALL of the tools they use. Trouble is they go too softly, softly on them and by the time they get around to doing anything that could have been effective the crims are now career crims.
Having said that, I have met a guy who made his own safe and the door is double-skinned.
He filled the void with gunpowder and the outer skin is fairly light so the explosion would go outwards were anyone to try getting into it with a grinder.
Probably illegal but would certainly be gratifying
Have heard story's of people storing there powder on the back of strong room doors etc.
I really like the thinking behind it but the crims can have my guns rather than me ending up in jail after a successful mantrap activation.
I'll just have to stick to strong storage that's has alarms-the company knows to ring the police of it goes off
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For all the talk of breaking into safes etc, has anyone else here actually ever known, even second hand, of burglars breaking into a proper gun safe (not an a cat tin can) in nz? Not being sarky, just interested in any real life examples
A mate had is old e cat safe (chub I think) cut into-fortunately he had built a strongroom a year or so beforehand so it was only used as a decoy and for stuff he still had to clean etc.
they just cut a fairly small hole and fussed the ducked old .22s etc he had in it out through it. It was a targeted burglary and it has yet to be solved. I don't really want to say how they cut it but it was not that hard. It was a better safe than any I have owned.
It can and does happen.
Restrict working space around the safe if you can. Hide the safe if you can. Don't hang out with scum. Have insurance.
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I've been told of a couple of cases of E category safes being defeated by burglars in our district, in recent times.
Most A cat safes are honestly garbage. They can be pried open fairly easy if you are determined. Thin steel, poor design. Cases where B, C and E category firearms are stolen always seem to be targeted, and theives with time and tools will get in.
I posed the question of how many stolen firearms get recovered, to somebody in the police with good knowledge of the issue. The answer was "basically none".
The premises that cannot be broken into and the physical and electronic security system that cannot be overcome have both yet to be designed. I spent several years proving to people that the thousands of dollars they had spent on their security could be easily overcome. I recall one particularly wealthy individual spitting the dummy big time when I demonstrated that I could get into the middle of his highly secure fourth floor Remuera apartment and remove his most prized possession right under the eyes of his really expensive monitored security system. Ahh those were the days. Sorry for the thread deviation, I am just making a point.
and you Sir are right on the money-whats the old saying -the first man invents a foolproof system-the second comes along and finds the holes in it.
yes people need to understand -to the committed scum security is simply a series of obstacles to be overcome on your way to removing your ill gotten gains
universities of crime-Paremomo,Mt Eden Paparoa all no doubt offer easily accessed knowledge and tuition in this.
congrats to his honour who sent Russell Tully ,the ashburton shooter down for 27yrs+-mind you should have got another five for an illegal firearm,but either way it puts a self entitled prick outta circulation for a good spell.
Restrict working space around the safe if you can. Hide the safe if you can. Don't hang out with scum. Have insurance.
These 4 things will help immensely and I'd add
Don't talk guns with your unknown colleagues
Don't put "I like guns" stickers on your truck
Load them into said truck inside the garage if you can
I'm not naturally a secret squirrel kind of guy but it is better to be discreet IMO
Point agreed.
People too often lull themselves into a false sense of security by relying on only one aspect of security alone (e.g. the alarm system or the tough safe). The safe for example, should be the absolute last layer of security and the criminal should have expended a lot of time, effort and preferably have drawn attention to themselves in the process of even reaching it, let alone attempting to access the contents.
Totally agree, unfortunately security is about making yourself a less desirable/easy target than the next chump on the street. From what I understand there are a lot of opportunist theft where they will scope out places to do. Apparently the inorganic rubbish collections were a great opportunity to scope out houses. If you are specifically targeted by someone who knows what they are doing your best security efforts will be tested.
Dead right, I personally don't own a single firearm so there, leave me alone. I have a giggle at other forums where the posters list what they own. Pissing contest or shopping list?
The other giveaway is posting links on here to TradeMe auto sales, (sorry to those that post here). Doesn't require much sleuthing to... well most will get the idea.
Good security is about defence in depth. Deter, Delay, Detect and Detain. Make the offenders think twice and not want to take the risk (think warning signs, fences, locks, bars, lighting etc), then make it as hard as fuck for them to get in (again bars, locks, hinge bolts, dogs etc) , then catch them in the act (electronic alarm / CCTV detection, alarm monitoring etc) and then make it as hard as fuck for them to get out ( deadlocks etc). Take an holistic approach to your security and the criminals will find somewhere easier to go.
hows about signs"-how fast can you run-the dog does 5.38secs for 100m-slightly more with your balls in his jaws".:wtfsmilie:
should you meet my wife whilst youre burgling -she'll smile:P and say "where do i send your flowers?" too late to run chump-you're well fucked::o
Im a piss poor shot -wife&daughters aint..fuck off and have a happy day!:redbullsmiley:
Not able to go political here @tetawa (difficult at times, firearms are such a political theme). There is one who would but for most of them it's much easier to just blame us for the problem.
Murder is still illegal, has a heavy sentencing structure and it's not a deterrent because murder still happens.
Unless there's a terrible, obscene tragedy due to stolen firearms, mandatory long sentences for illegal possession and/or use of firearms just realistically isn't going to happen. In as much as folks wanting to be able string up murderers at the nearest lamp post, also won't happen.
If this idea goes ahead I reckon everyone who owns a new E cat Ruger 10/22 or semi shotgun, should buy and sell (swap) them with their mates ones once a month so the police have a ridiculous amount of paper work, think they would get over it pretty quickly.