Thread: Sick of it all. Off to war.

Originally Posted by Sidney

No.. and I am pretty sure that you have missed the point.... I offered an opinion based on knowledge and capacity, and on any sensible analysis on what I offered, it is correct.

You on the other hand offer no evidence, facts or information that can be relied on to form a legitimate opinion. You only have a perception based on random unqualified pieces of media information, you offer no statistical understanding and no apparent understanding that media reports are based on statistically extreme pieces of information and bear no real reflection of the day to day situations, and normal performance.

You apparently have no ideal that our prison populations are at the highest levels ever and our offending rate/1000 people has been dropping consistently for years as well as has the total offences reported. (At least up to 2012). That don't sound like weak kneed judges to me, unless of course your argument was that they are obviously weak kneed because they respond to political and public perceptions, even when the stats apparently don't require it. But I am pretty sure that isn't what you meant.

So what you know about the normal day to day work done by judges in this country doesn't appear to stack up. Based on what I know, you have a pretty weak case for your latest attempt at a legitimate opinion.

Poorly created and uninformed perceptions aint opinions. The're just feelings.

Yes, the growing prison numbers are more an indication of society in free fall. The disaffected, and disillusioned who cannot maintain a job turn to drugs to numb the pain and crime to pay. A lot of this could arguably be attributed to the growing gap between the haves and have nots. When we had low unemployment and low crime we had greater productivity and our collective wealth grew as a country. Now we seem to be trying to soak up unemployment with created bureaucracy and inefficiency, with less and less productivity, and more and more overhead. These are generalisations of course and don't fit every scenario, but standing back and looking at the overall picture it is probably not too far off.

Originally Posted by northdude

Umm what's that

If you don't know, don't ask....

once upon a time we lived our lives not our excuses today we are encouraged to live our excuses and not our lives

Originally Posted by Sidney

I wouldn't assume that you know who I am Maca or what I can deliver... that sounds like another unsubstantiable opinion...

Yep just my humble opinion formulated from my gut feelings, I think is time for me to run Forrest run?

I

Originally Posted by gadgetman

Yes, the growing prison numbers are more an indication of society in free fall. The disaffected, and disillusioned who cannot maintain a job turn to drugs to numb the pain and crime to pay. A lot of this could arguably be attributed to the growing gap between the haves and have nots. When we had low unemployment and low crime we had greater productivity and our collective wealth grew as a country. Now we seem to be trying to soak up unemployment with created bureaucracy and inefficiency, with less and less productivity, and more and more overhead. These are generalisations of course and don't fit every scenario, but standing back and looking at the overall picture it is probably not too far off.

GM it's time we withdrew support for many and let them toughen up. There are others I think we should offer more to.
I remember a few years ago, talking to an older lady who told me about moving to Rarimu at the age of about 4 yrs and her dad digging a bank out to form a room and setting up a canvas on poles to provide a kitchen. That's the middle of the North Island, shitty cold and wet winters with freezing temps. They lived there for two years until her dad got enough money to build a small house! I think a car in Auck sounds much better. The diff is the struggle her mum and dad put in to achieve, he became a fairly wealthy guy in the timber industry, all through hard graft and belief in him and his wife. Now tell me things are different? Yep now we can put our hand out, and the govt will give you some of my tax money!

@systolic Aggressively name calling someone constantly and complaining they have guns because they simply mentioned castle doctrine & concealed carry? Grow up. They are both legal in other countries. It's not like he said lets buy machine guns on the black market and take this country back. I think you are the weirdo. Your insecurity about this is beyond obvious. I've scene you obsessively pick at people for posting their somewhat personal info on the net claiming that "no wonder" you'll get burgled or "followed home" or "it's only a matter of time before they'll come & get ya"

But yet, you don't advocate any form of self defense or proper means to combat this? And if anyone does bring up some form of legitimate self defense, God forbid you are there to strike them down!

I don't see why people treat CCW or castle doctrine like it'll be the end of society as we know it, you'd think we were walking around with weapons grade plutonium in our pockets or something. It is statistical fact that states in the US have lower crime where citizens can defend themselves freely without heavy restrictions. The same would go here but pigs would fly before that ever happens here.

Castle doctrine? Maybe. Certainly farmers, dairy owners and people living in dodgy areas would benefit from this. Regardless, everyone has the ancient right to defend themselves with whatever force is deemed necessary - just don't use excessive force. Remember though, if what the MSM and the police hierarchy are anecdotally claiming about methamphetamine & firearms to be true, then why can't the crowns subjects have the means to deal with the problem if it ever comes knocking on the door.

Originally Posted by Sidney

An opinion is evidence/information that has bearing on the issue. Before it can be evidence it has to be relevant and admissible. On that basis you are still wrong about firearm ownership, it is a legal right recognised in legislation. So your opinion is worthless and not relevant - so not admissible, it also has no weight because you are just incorrect.

You are however correct about obtaining a job. Its not a right. Once you have it of course your ability to keep it is controlled by legal rights that apply to both parties.

Opinions are not feelings, nor are they unjustiable thoughts. Opinions are information and analysis coming from competance and capacity, that has bearing on the issue. It has to be relevant before it can be offered. It shouldn't be offered unless it comes from competance.

So you are partly right about one aspect. That would get you about 12.5%.... a bare pass mark for a quarter of the topics covered.

Why is it everyone seems to believe that their opinion actually matters, when all they are doing is saying what they want to think, rather than what actually is?

I'll give you a 10/10 for accuracy there

Originally Posted by Maca49

I
GM it's time we withdrew support for many and let them toughen up.

The trouble is that it would simply mean they have to steal more. It's a tough one. But it is a problem for us as a society, not just for the legislature/police/judicial system to sort out.

Originally Posted by Sidney

No.. and I am pretty sure that you have missed the point.... I offered an opinion based on knowledge and capacity, and on any sensible analysis on what I offered, it is correct.

You on the other hand offer no evidence, facts or information that can be relied on to form a legitimate opinion. You only have a perception based on random unqualified pieces of media information, you offer no statistical understanding and no apparent understanding that media reports are based on statistically extreme pieces of information and bear no real reflection of the day to day situations, and normal performance.

You apparently have no ideal that our prison populations are at the highest levels ever and our offending rate/1000 people has been dropping consistently for years as well as has the total offences reported. (At least up to 2012). That don't sound like weak kneed judges to me, unless of course your argument was that they are obviously weak kneed because they respond to political and public perceptions, even when the stats apparently don't require it. But I am pretty sure that isn't what you meant.

So what you know about the normal day to day work done by judges in this country doesn't appear to stack up. Based on what I know, you have a pretty weak case for your latest attempt at a legitimate opinion.

Poorly created and uninformed perceptions aint opinions. The're just feelings.

Does the low offending rate possibly correspond with the high amount of offenders actually locked up? Can't offend from inside? Is that a bad thing?
Lets face it most of serious crime is probably (large assumption on my part) by a small % of full-time career pro's, I've come across a few and they find it hard to change.

Although I don't agree with the concept of Jail, putting all the bad people together to scheme up more shit for when they get out, making new acquaintances I do not have a suitable alternative solution.

Originally Posted by jackson21

I'll give you a 10/10 for accuracy there

I wouldn't.

Opinion

A view or judgement formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge.

An opinion is a viewpoint/judgement made by someone from what they have observed and know.

Sidneys very narrow opinion on opinion is just his and his trades opinion on opinion.

Originally Posted by gadgetman

The trouble is that it would simply mean they have to steal more. It's a tough one. But it is a problem for us as a society, not just for the legislature/police/judicial system to sort out.

Agree 100% with you there GM, balls in the wrong court,

The gap between the wealthy and the poor that exists now, has always existed and will always exist. It may be broadening but so what? As long as you are on the right side who really gives a shit? I don't. As for the number of people in prison there is 1 (rounded down for you nit pickers) for every thousand citizens in the country so big fucking deal. If you don't like them being in jail and want a viable alternative then shoot the pricks and spend my taxes on something worthwhile.

the problem with our prison system is its suppose to be a deterant which ours isn't its a cushy holiday I like the idea I think Thailand has once convicted human rights don't apply to you any more also no food get your supporters to provide for you once your in there that would save a bit of tax

Originally Posted by northdude

the problem with our prison system is its suppose to be a deterant which ours isn't its a cushy holiday I like the idea I think Thailand has once convicted human rights don't apply to you any more also no food get your supporters to provide for you once your in there that would save a bit of tax

Interesting concept. Push that a bit further and affluent crims would be reluctant to "eat well" as they would also become targets of those who had no outside support. Downside is loners or those who are jailed far from home and have no support would not be fed. (yes, they should have thought about this prior to committing the crime).

But I definitely agree that prison does not appear to be the deterrent that it is supposed to be.

i used to do allot of service work in the prisons, the food wasnt bad and the accommodation was pretty good especially in the rolleston hut compounds.
pool table, rec room etc, tv points in each cell (i installed them) clean clothing and linen and no compulsory work duty. pretty cushy really