Thread: Soldier shot in shoulder during Tekapo live firing training exercise

Originally Posted by vbull

Guys, I didn't want to cause offence. But seriously I don't see the need of having like 15000 people on a payroll for doing wargames and pretend missions. Just consider how much it could be spent on uplifting the plight of the poor people we see in places like tokoroa/ Gisborne etc. It'll keep these people happy so that we won't even need an army to put down unrest etc.

A lot of small countries have a protectorate agreement with large ones, for example if we had US, Australian, French and maybe even Chinese bases here, we could play them against each other and get significant payouts in terms of investment etc.


I'm just putting another point of view, devils advocate sort of, just to see what discussion points could be brought up.

I came from an impoverished family in one of the town's you mention. The NZDF provided me with an opportunity to further myself that I otherwise would never have had and I owe the Army a debt of gratitude to this very day for making me who I have become. You could not be more wrong in my opinion.

While I was never in the armed forces, when I was a teenager I was in a similar enviroment that provided routine, structure, discipline and regulation. Those 5 years at Boarding school were EXACTLY what I needed. With that experience I am a far better man than I would ever have been without it. And I would expect that the similar structure and regimen in the Armed forces will do the same for a lot of young kiwi men. Especially in todays enviroment where discipline and honour are concepts most youth seem to be completely unaware of having received little to none in their formative years.

One of the strongest points from the experience was the loyalty to others and the honesty and integrity that follows. No matter how much they liked or did not like you, they would stand beside you like a brother with you in any situation, If you did something wrong and you were challenged no one would dob you in, but they would remind you that you are responsible for "owning up to it". As such, if anyone asked "Who did that?' the person responsible would not stay silent but would step forward and accept their responsibility. Definitely not a quality that is common in todays world....Imagine Mallard asking the 120 poli-children in his care "Who leaked Bridges travel expenses?" and having the culpit own up without hiding thier involvment. It would save a fortune on enquiries that would be better spent elsewhere.

Originally Posted by vbull

Guys, I didn't want to cause offence. But seriously I don't see the need of having like 15000 people on a payroll for doing wargames and pretend missions. Just consider how much it could be spent on uplifting the plight of the poor people we see in places like tokoroa/ Gisborne etc. It'll keep these people happy so that we won't even need an army to put down unrest etc.

A lot of small countries have a protectorate agreement with large ones, for example if we had US, Australian, French and maybe even Chinese bases here, we could play them against each other and get significant payouts in terms of investment etc.


I'm just putting another point of view, devils advocate sort of, just to see what discussion points could be brought up.

Your being very naive and blind . There is more to any Defence force than playing bang bang games .
There is the Fisheries protection , and search and rescue which extends to foreign nationals which gives good press as to how far we will go , Security from external and even internal threats . Then the bangbang games with foreign countries leads to political capital ( and we play with many countries US / Poms / Asians etc ) , which can be used for Trade & such things as work permits ( as in the English ) ect . There are so many ways of things happening behind the scenes that are not seen or even acknowledged .

Soviet union had full employment, but resorted to elevator operators etc.
USA also stimulates its economy, especially with artificial jobs in the defense industry. Fuelled by loans.
The economy does not care where from and how the money enters, as long as it gets stimulated.
Think its something to do with pyramids, confidence and scheming.

Originally Posted by timattalon

While I was never in the armed forces, when I was a teenager I was in a similar enviroment that provided routine, structure, discipline and regulation. Those 5 years at Boarding school were EXACTLY what I needed. With that experience I am a far better man than I would ever have been without it. And I would expect that the similar structure and regimen in the Armed forces will do the same for a lot of young kiwi men. Especially in todays enviroment where discipline and honour are concepts most youth seem to be completely unaware of having received little to none in their formative years.

One of the strongest points from the experience was the loyalty to others and the honesty and integrity that follows. No matter how much they liked or did not like you, they would stand beside you like a brother with you in any situation, If you did something wrong and you were challenged no one would dob you in, but they would remind you that you are responsible for "owning up to it". As such, if anyone asked "Who did that?' the person responsible would not stay silent but would step forward and accept their responsibility. Definitely not a quality that is common in todays world....Imagine Mallard asking the 120 poli-children in his care "Who leaked Bridges travel expenses?" and having the culpit own up without hiding thier involvment. It would save a fortune on enquiries that would be better spent elsewhere.

In my opinion the inquiry is more to deflect from the 1000 dollars a day spending and more onto the leak and the breach of security. Which is surprising as it was going to be released soon anyway.

Sent from my TA-1024 using Tapatalk

Geezuss @vbull I read your freedom of speech.I speak and type freely under the influence. But fark man the green machine has turned lots of young people into better people than the trash that is out there walking the streets today. I have always been courteous and respectful to my elders but when I joined the green machine I became a better fella than on civvie street. Rant over hope our fellow soldier is on the mend.

Better to have a solution for a problem that never arises than to have a problem arise with no solution.

RE Fiji ,

Realise that NZ & Fiji Armies trained together back in the day , also I heard that the forward recce , done by the SAS in civies , into Fiji by commercial civie flight , where recognised by Fijian troops at the airport , put back on the plane , & told to stay out of IT , also I think the powers to be , realised that the Fijians would actually fight , and NZ would lose quite a few guys , so they where never sent .

Originally Posted by GDMP

Would'nt matter how many millions of taxpayers money is lavished on the bottom of society,nothing will change until those people themselves have the motivation and nouse to improve their own lives....no one else can do that for them.We have far too much welfare now, more will only exacerbate our social problems.....the welfare state has largely been a disaster for NZ.As for foreign bases in our country....no thanks.Screw that.

GDMP, there is actually fairly compelling results from studies in several countries that disproves your statement. Do some reading about basic income pilots all over the world, and you will see results such as decreased hospital visits, increased mental health, increased school graduation figures and more.