Some commentary please . I have a gun cupboard .....

I am trying to follow the storage of firearms rules .
There are three things that must be kept safe , separately . Bolts , Rifles and Ammo . Correct ?

So , I have a firearms "Cupboard" . THis is purposely built into my house , but its not the actual total security . The Cupboard has a standard door ,but 2 internal Bolt type locks installed in the door and the doors hinges are blind . A key is needed for the locks of the door to the cupboard .
Inside the cupboard is a standard gun safe . The safe has 4 bolts in the door. You need a different key to open the door of the safe .
IN the safe , is an ammo/ bolt "safe" that needs a separate key from the other 2 keys .

So, this is how i see things ..
The cupboard is purposefully built into my house when we built it . It has heating , and shelves for my reloading materials , and i store spare scopes , and suppressors there as well . However the door would be best described as "stout " and if a thief turned up with a chainsaw ( say ) i guess he could cut the whole door right out of the wall.

So, now that action would expose the gun safe , which is bolted to the floor and the back wall of the cupboard and if the thief turned up with metal cutting tools as well , eventually he might defeat the safe door "mechanisms " and the rifles would be exposed and i guess if he persisted with the metal cutting tools , he could defeat the inner safe to expose the bolt/ ammo safe contents .

As it turns out , i only keep firearms in the safe , in the cupboard , and nothing in the internal gun safe designed for ammo / bolts . I Hide the bolts and ammo in separate different locations . But heres the question , do i have to ?
THeroretically , Ammo could be in the cupboard on the shelves , protected by the cupboard bolts ,blind hinges and first set of separate keys ? And "separately " in the Gun safe ( in the cupboard ), are rifles locked in the gunsafe by another separate key and then " separately " in the gunsafe , in the bolt safe of the gun cabinet and by another separate key there could be bolts .
Yes or No ?
cheers
les

I'm going to question some of that. My rifles and ammo are are stored separately. But rifle bolts and mags live in the rifles they belong to. I have a stout room, fire door with decent lock, bars on high window, guns in safes or locked racks on wall. Too many stories of rifles getting parted from bolts over time and with deceased estates. Someone tell me I'm wrong but storing bolts separate is a Police recommendation rather than a legislated requirement. At least I hope that's the case.

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Originally Posted by Jhon

I'm going to question some of that. My rifles and ammo are are stored separately. But rifle bolts and mags live in the rifles they belong to. I have a stout room, fire door with decent lock, bars on high window, guns in safes or locked racks on wall. Too many stories of rifles getting parted from bolts over time and with deceased estates. Someone tell me I'm wrong but storing bolts separate is a Police recommendation rather than a legislated requirement. At least I hope that's the case.

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Yup, storing bolts separately is only a recommendation, only ammo needs to be stored separately.

From my understanding, it's a recommendation and not a requirement to keep rifles and bolts separate - and with things like lever actions, semi's and to a lesser extent single shot firearms you can't easily remove a part to render them inert so it's a bit of a question how effective such a rule would be.

As far as your security, I think "double layer" security of a locked "stout" cupboard followed by an internal secondary compliant gunsafe is in excess of the minimum requirements that are required for meeting the requirements of licence inspection and really it can only be considered a good thing. As you say, even if a thief was to defeat both security layers then they would still not have a complete firearm.

From a purely practical viewpoint, I think you would still be compliant storing the parts in the separate compartment and this would be a lot more convenient for you in storing things etc etc. But there is nothing wrong I can think of with what you are doing?

It used to be part of the legislation that you were not able to store Class 1 material in a dwelling house, meaning that ammo stored inside a house wasn't compliant but I've since had it pointed out that the legislation that gave power to this has not been renewed and I can't find anywhere that this is currently required in the legislation still in place. That would be possibly the only thing that might change storing ammo inside your house, but as far as I can find you are currently OK to do this...

The answer to your ending question is “Yes”

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Originally Posted by Jhon

I'm going to question some of that. My rifles and ammo are are stored separately. But rifle bolts and mags live in the rifles they belong to. I have a stout room, fire door with decent lock, bars on high window, guns in safes or locked racks on wall. Too many stories of rifles getting parted from bolts over time and with deceased estates. Someone tell me I'm wrong but storing bolts separate is a Police recommendation rather than a legislated requirement. At least I hope that's the case.

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You Ponder a very valid point . I left 2 rifles in a mates safe for safe keeping while i was away . It was his habit to keep the bolts separate . Unfortunately a heart attack killed him . His widow made contact to say "son " is sorting out the gun safe , what would you like to do about your rifles in there ? I said ( knowing son was FAL holder) i will collect them from him .... got another call from son . Sorry mate , DAD hid all the bolts cant find any of them . ....

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Originally Posted by LJPRMC

You Ponder a very valid point . I left 2 rifles in a mates safe for safe keeping while i was away . It was his habit to keep the bolts separate . Unfortunately a heart attack killed him . His widow made contact to say "son " is sorting out the gun safe , what would you like to do about your rifles in there ? I said ( knowing son was FAL holder) i will collect them from him .... got another call from son . Sorry mate , DAD hid all the bolts cant find any of them . ....

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Yep, keep bolts with rifles is what I do too

Police can recommend that I don't

Bless

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Originally Posted by LJPRMC

You Ponder a very valid point . I left 2 rifles in a mates safe for safe keeping while i was away . It was his habit to keep the bolts separate . Unfortunately a heart attack killed him . His widow made contact to say "son " is sorting out the gun safe , what would you like to do about your rifles in there ? I said ( knowing son was FAL holder) i will collect them from him .... got another call from son . Sorry mate , DAD hid all the bolts cant find any of them . ....

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Yes, an English mate 15 yrs ago was searching for bolts to fit a bevy of fine and collectable rifles on behalf of an estate. Original owner had died. The bolts were kept separate. Consensus was widow managed to throw them not realizing their significance, or value. The story stuck with me.

More to the point that, a few years back I had the embarrassment of mixing up the bolts between a M98 7x57mm and a Zastava 243. I had been shooting the 7x57mm fine except I noticed primers were a quarter popped out of pockets. Was shooting a ladder so stopped thinking I'd stuffed the charges up. Went to the 243 and could not close the bolt on a round. Completely pissed off I took the 243 into my local guy who scratched his head and asked " your don't happen to have another Mauser Action in the car do you?" Boy did I have a red face. And that happened despite me then keeping bolts in labeled baggies. I trust myself less and less as I advance in years and go for redundant layers of protection from self. Never mind the bloody burglar! So bolts live with rifles they belong to except when transported. Then they are in labeled twice checked plastic bags.

Also you should own so much ammo that you can't fit it all into one of those piddly little boxes that they put inside safes

Thats a very good idea right there

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Originally Posted by 308

Also you should own so much ammo that you can't fit it all into one of those piddly little boxes that they put inside safes

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Spot on.

I use a filing cabinet for ammo and powder. Steel, lockable and can be obtained cheaply at used office supplies shops etc. not sure if legal in NZ?


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I leave the bolts and mags in my rifles, however I also leave the trigger locks on in the safe, saves me looking for them when needed.

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Originally Posted by Dicko

I use a filing cabinet for ammo and powder. Steel, lockable and can be obtained cheaply at used office supplies shops etc. not sure if legal in NZ?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Just has to be locked so kids can't easily access. Locked Filing cab absolutely fine.. I use old bank cheque cabinet with drawers and a bunch of partitions removed. All sorts of cheap lockable containers work. The kind of lock is not specified but if a kid can easily open it you are not compliant

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Originally Posted by LJPRMC

I am trying to follow the storage of firearms rules .
There are three things that must be kept safe , separately . Bolts , Rifles and Ammo . Correct ?

So , I have a firearms "Cupboard" . THis is purposely built into my house , but its not the actual total security . The Cupboard has a standard door ,but 2 internal Bolt type locks installed in the door and the doors hinges are blind . A key is needed for the locks of the door to the cupboard .
Inside the cupboard is a standard gun safe . The safe has 4 bolts in the door. You need a different key to open the door of the safe .
IN the safe , is an ammo/ bolt "safe" that needs a separate key from the other 2 keys .

So, this is how i see things ..
The cupboard is purposefully built into my house when we built it . It has heating , and shelves for my reloading materials , and i store spare scopes , and suppressors there as well . However the door would be best described as "stout " and if a thief turned up with a chainsaw ( say ) i guess he could cut the whole door right out of the wall.

So, now that action would expose the gun safe , which is bolted to the floor and the back wall of the cupboard and if the thief turned up with metal cutting tools as well , eventually he might defeat the safe door "mechanisms " and the rifles would be exposed and i guess if he persisted with the metal cutting tools , he could defeat the inner safe to expose the bolt/ ammo safe contents .

As it turns out , i only keep firearms in the safe , in the cupboard , and nothing in the internal gun safe designed for ammo / bolts . I Hide the bolts and ammo in separate different locations . But heres the question , do i have to ?
THeroretically , Ammo could be in the cupboard on the shelves , protected by the cupboard bolts ,blind hinges and first set of separate keys ? And "separately " in the Gun safe ( in the cupboard ), are rifles locked in the gunsafe by another separate key and then " separately " in the gunsafe , in the bolt safe of the gun cabinet and by another separate key there could be bolts .
Yes or No ?
cheers
les

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Hi there Les,

According to New Zealand firearms storage regulations, firearms, bolts, and ammunition must be stored securely and separately. Here’s a brief rundown:

• Firearms: Should be stored in a locked safe or cabinet that is sturdy and secure, which you’ve already implemented inside your cupboard.
• Bolts and Vital Parts: These should be stored separately from the firearms. It’s acceptable to keep them in a separate locked compartment within the gun safe or in a different secure location.
• Ammunition: Must also be stored securely and separately from both the firearms and bolts. A locked container or compartment is suitable for this purpose.

From your description, it seems you have:

1. A locked cupboard with a sturdy door and blind hinges.
2. Inside that cupboard, a gun safe secured with its own key.
3. An internal compartment within the gun safe for bolts and ammo, also locked separately.

You don’t necessarily have to hide the bolts and ammo in completely different locations unless you choose to. Storing them in separate locked compartments within your existing setup meets the requirement of being stored “separately.” So, keeping ammunition on the shelves inside the locked cupboard is acceptable if it’s secured and not accessible to unauthorized persons.

Always ensure that each component—firearms, bolts, and ammunition—is secured with its own lock and key. If in doubt, it’s a good idea to consult the official guidelines or reach out to local authorities for clarification.

Hope this helps!

See what's just happened???? Person A says bolts in is ok and person B says it's not.... What do the rules ACTUALLY say?

There's no LAW that says you must store the bolt separately from the firearm. There are Police recommendations but, fortunately, they don't get to overrule the
legislation.

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Originally Posted by ASap

Hi there Les,

According to New Zealand firearms storage regulations, firearms, bolts, and ammunition must be stored securely and separately. Here’s a brief rundown:

• Firearms: Should be stored in a locked safe or cabinet that is sturdy and secure, which you’ve already implemented inside your cupboard.
• Bolts and Vital Parts: These should be stored separately from the firearms. It’s acceptable to keep them in a separate locked compartment within the gun safe or in a different secure location.
• Ammunition: Must also be stored securely and separately from both the firearms and bolts. A locked container or compartment is suitable for this purpose.

From your description, it seems you have:

1. A locked cupboard with a sturdy door and blind hinges.
2. Inside that cupboard, a gun safe secured with its own key.
3. An internal compartment within the gun safe for bolts and ammo, also locked separately.

You don’t necessarily have to hide the bolts and ammo in completely different locations unless you choose to. Storing them in separate locked compartments within your existing setup meets the requirement of being stored “separately.” So, keeping ammunition on the shelves inside the locked cupboard is acceptable if it’s secured and not accessible to unauthorized persons.

Always ensure that each component—firearms, bolts, and ammunition—is secured with its own lock and key. If in doubt, it’s a good idea to consult the official guidelines or reach out to local authorities for clarification.

Hope this helps!

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Those are guidelines, not the law

A man's got to know his limitations

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ASap

Hi there Les,

According to New Zealand firearms storage regulations, firearms, bolts, and ammunition must be stored securely and separately. Here’s a brief rundown:

• Firearms: Should be stored in a locked safe or cabinet that is sturdy and secure, which you’ve already implemented inside your cupboard.
• Bolts and Vital Parts: These should be stored separately from the firearms. It’s acceptable to keep them in a separate locked compartment within the gun safe or in a different secure location.
• Ammunition: Must also be stored securely and separately from both the firearms and bolts. A locked container or compartment is suitable for this purpose.

From your description, it seems you have:

1. A locked cupboard with a sturdy door and blind hinges.
2. Inside that cupboard, a gun safe secured with its own key.
3. An internal compartment within the gun safe for bolts and ammo, also locked separately.

You don’t necessarily have to hide the bolts and ammo in completely different locations unless you choose to. Storing them in separate locked compartments within your existing setup meets the requirement of being stored “separately.” So, keeping ammunition on the shelves inside the locked cupboard is acceptable if it’s secured and not accessible to unauthorized persons.

Always ensure that each component—firearms, bolts, and ammunition—is secured with its own lock and key. If in doubt, it’s a good idea to consult the official guidelines or reach out to local authorities for clarification.

Hope this helps!

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Thanks for your opinion . It aligns with my own as well . les

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Originally Posted by 308

Also you should own so much ammo that you can't fit it all into one of those piddly little boxes that they put inside safes

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I will will explain a little . I shoot a shotgun as well , so there is more than a box of ammo for that firearm , then there is the brick of .17 hmr , and my deerstalking habit and so ..

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Originally Posted by 308

Those are guidelines, not the law

A man's got to know his limitations

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Yes, guidelines as the writer uses a mixture of mandatory and discretionary language (must, shall, should). I don't believe they should use any discretionary language, and should just stick to the law. Then everything they communicate would be black and white. It should be up to the individual if they wish to do more than the law requires.

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Originally Posted by ASap

Hi there Les,

According to New Zealand firearms storage regulations, firearms, bolts, and ammunition must be stored securely and separately. Here’s a brief rundown:[LIST][*]Bolts and Vital Parts: These should be stored separately from the firearms. It’s acceptable to keep them in a separate locked compartment within the gun safe or in a different secure location.

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Notice your mistake? Must and Should are two entirely different words, especially when it comes to government-speak.

I would take anything ASap posts with a grain of salt, every one of his reads like something straight out of an Ai program...

Regarding guidelines:

Every firearms licence is subject to the following conditions:
19 (2)(d) complying with guidance notices issued by the Commissioner under section 87(1)(b) of the Act (if any) that relate to the secure storage of firearms by licence holders.

and within the above mentioned 87(1)(b)
The Commissioner may issue notices that provide guidance or details of an administrative nature that relate to 1 or more of the following:
(b) the requirements of regulations made under section 74(1)(j) that relate to the security of premises where firearms are kept:

so it seems to me that the only way the 1992 Arms Regulation Act could require bolts to be kept separated from the rifles would depend on whether such guidance has been issued by the Commissioner and has been gazetted, so spelt out elsewhere, and also whether guidance in this area is even provided for within the Act — within the scope of "security of premises" — to me that seems more about the structure being used and perhaps its location rather than the details of storage within premises. Does anyone have knowledge that such guidance either falls outside of the remit of the Act or has not been issued?

Actually 74 (1)(j) making provision for the security of premises at which any firearm or class of firearm is kept, and prescribing precautions to be taken to prevent the theft or misuse of firearms, airguns, pistols, prohibited items, restricted weapons, pistol carbine conversion kits, ammunition, and explosives in the possession of any person or class of persons

So my interpretation would be that providing guidance that must be adhered to regarding the method of storing of bolts is within the Act and covered by
precautions to be taken to prevent the theft or misuse of firearms
As above, does anyone know if such guidance has been formally issued?