STORAGE LAW HELP

I am wanting to go to university in a different town. and from my understanding of section 19 of the arms regulations 1992 my rifles would have to come with me.

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In addition to this i hear of a lot of AOs saying "a-cat safe need to be bolted down" however I can't find an amendment that says that.
The only thing that needs to be bolted down according to section 28 is e-cat safes, but the police website quotes this section for all firearms.

Attachment 73692
Basically I'm just asking for a second interpretation of law or guidance if i have missed something.

Cheers

1 Don't change your address for gun stuff or
2 a simple 6mm eyebolt in corner of wardrobe 400mm off the ground with a hardened steel padlock will be sufficient

apologies, forgot to add i already have an e-cat rated safe because i wanted something more secure than a-cat

is it legal to do what Paddy79 suggested as the first option?

Technically no, however I did for ten years not a problem at all, in fact I even mentioned to A/O that I had shifted when purchasing a new fire arm and he was not concerned of my address change, so go figure aye

The safest option? If the firearms are secured at your parents house ask the AO, would be much safer in my opinion than carting them around student flats? Of course if the AOs logic is as good as mind he'd probably want you to take with you, as he did when I purchased a firearm recently, could not come to me at work, but could be send to my home address where no one is at home all day, only other option was a gun store or be held a a Couriers. Go figure?

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Originally Posted by Maca49

The safest option? If the firearms are secured at your parents house ask the AO, would be much safer in my opinion than carting them around student flats? Of course if the AOs logic is as good as mind he'd probably want you to take with you, as he did when I purchased a firearm recently, could not come to me at work, but could be send to my home address where no one is at home all day, only other option was a gun store or be held a a Couriers. Go figure?

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Having secure storage at your parents place is probably easiest but only if one of them has a license. (Could be worth paying for one to get a license in that scenario if they dont yet) But bear in mind the AO will probably ask if you have somewhere safe to keep one or two at your residence in case you end up with one there at any point. (eg you buy a new one and dont take it straight to your parents place) Discuss the situation with your AO and find out what they will require. Asking us what we think wont make as much difference if we dont think the same thing as the local AO. And considering we all have different experiences and answers the AO is the only one whose answer will have an effect on the outcome....

Your parents do not require a firearms license for you to continue to store your firearms at home. BUT they must NOT know where the key is or how to get in to the safe. For all intents and purposes their address is still your home address.

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Originally Posted by Husky1600

Your parents do not require a firearms license for you to continue to store your firearms at home. BUT they must NOT know where the key is or how to get in to the safe. For all intents and purposes their address is still your home address.

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but isn't some one supposed to know how to access your firearms in case something happens to you? ie an accident where you become physically or mentally incapacitated or death
and carry out as your will follows in regards to disposal of said firearms

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Originally Posted by Paddy79

but isn't some one supposed to know how to access your firearms in case something happens to you? ie an accident where you become physically or mentally incapacitated or death
and carry out as your will follows in regards to disposal of said firearms

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Had my 10-year licence renewal interview & security inspection last week. The (civilian) vetting contractor asked me this question, stating this isn't a legal requirement but Police would like firearm owners to consider making arrangements, just in case you fall off a bluff or lose your marbles.

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Originally Posted by rockland

Had my 10-year licence renewal interview & security inspection last week. The (civilian) vetting contractor asked me this question, stating this isn't a legal requirement but Police would like firearm owners to consider making arrangements, just in case you fall off a bluff or lose your marbles.

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And here I was thinking it was necessary. My bad.

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Originally Posted by Paddy79

but isn't some one supposed to know how to access your firearms in case something happens to you? ie an accident where you become physically or mentally incapacitated or death
and carry out as your will follows in regards to disposal of said firearms

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My wife is about to apply for her license for this very reason. If something happens to me, then they can stay right where they are under her onwership / possession until she feels the need to deal with them. And she will probably have enough on her plat e at the time that she can just leave them there and forget about them for a while.....

I recently had some trouble with the police due to not updating my current address and the fact that that I didn't have Acat storage (I do have B). Even though I didn't have any Acat firearms at my house as they were at a friends, the AO told me it was a legal requirement for me to have some kind of storage for Acat just in case.

So what's going to happen next? People with out a gun licence need an approved safe incase they have guest staying who may have brought a rifle with them

Here's another one for you all. I enquired last year about e cat security and that I wished to secure my E cat firearms in my NZDF camp armoury as I considered it to be a more secure location than my home address. Nope, not allowed unless I actually lived in barracks. I had to store them at my home residence in a non-alarmed, unfenced, non-patrolled, non-gated location. So be it.

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Originally Posted by Feral

Here's another one for you all. I enquired last year about e cat security and that I wished to secure my E cat firearms in my NZDF camp armoury as I considered it to be a more secure location than my home address. Nope, not allowed unless I actually lived in barracks. I had to store them at my home residence in a non-alarmed, unfenced, non-patrolled, non-gated location. So be it.

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That is so stupid

I applied to purchase a firearm through an online sale earlier this year, my home address is secured with a gate across the driveway and I'm not there everyday so on the police paper work I put down my work address and put (work adress) under it, all approved and sent to my work no problems

Sent from my SM-G389F using Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by Deetleaves

In addition to this i hear of a lot of AOs saying "a-cat safe need to be bolted down" however I can't find an amendment that says that.
The only thing that needs to be bolted down according to section 28 is e-cat safes, but the police website quotes this section for all firearms.

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Refer to 19 (1) (c) If the gun cabinet is not secured to the premises then it is not secured against theft. Common sense should prevail though as obviously a gun cabinet that weighs so much that it's almost impossible to move without a forklift or is in such a tight space that it's impossible to move because of some post structural modification after it was installed etc.

As suggested, talk to the AO in your current area and the district where you intend to study.

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Originally Posted by Paddy79

So what's going to happen next? People with out a gun licence need an approved safe incase they have guest staying who may have brought a rifle with them

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Naaaa that will never happen. If it gets to that stage they will have already been required to get one in case they buy an illegal one first....

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Originally Posted by Macca

I recently had some trouble with the police due to not updating my current address and the fact that that I didn't have Acat storage (I do have B). Even though I didn't have any Acat firearms at my house as they were at a friends, the AO told me it was a legal requirement for me to have some kind of storage for Acat just in case.

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Legal requirement refers to a law. What law?

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Originally Posted by Cordite

Legal requirement refers to a law. What law?

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The law is not well written in regards to that and needs to be revised. Arms Regulations 1992 Section 19 (1) (c). the holder shall take reasonable steps to ensure that any firearm in the holder’s possession is secured against theft

As Macca has his A-Cat firearms stored at his friends place then it could be said that he hasn't got them in his possession. In a situation such as this consider the reason why the police insist on having security at your place of residence even though the law as it is currently written doesn't appear to support this police requirement.

If someone who has a current firearms licence and doesn't own any firearms or security but then purchases or obtains one or more firearms will they then notify the police to come and inspect their security? Any responsible FAL holder would however, common sense tells us that some wouldn't because they don't want to buy or obtain decent security for one reason or another.

Also, if a current FAL holder has their firearm/s secured at another location, as in Macca's case, will that person (not Macca) always return and secure the firearm/s to that other location when finished using them? Example, they go hunting arrive home at a late hour and their firearm/s are left unsecured at their place of residence. They may have every intention of returning the firearm/s to the place where they are normally secured but somehow they don't get around to it for a couple or more days.

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Originally Posted by 10-Ring

The law is not well written in regards to that and needs to be revised. Arms Regulations 1992 Section 19 (1) (c). the holder shall take reasonable steps to ensure that any firearm in the holder’s possession is secured against theft

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If that's the case why is it not worded like section 28 (1) (c) to remove any doubt, but they did not therefore the law must be interpreted in the way it was written not how you or I think they meant something.

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Originally Posted by Deetleaves

If that's the case why is it not worded like section 28 (1) (c) to remove any doubt, but they did not therefore the law must be interpreted in the way it was written not how you or I think they meant something.

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The issue you originally started this thread about was the police requirement to have security at your place of residence. You also asked about the police requirement to have your firearm security bolted down. I agree that way the law is written is not how you or I interpret it to mean. If you have a problem with the way the police may interpret those laws then of course you can challenge it in court.

Not all laws are perfect or even logical in some cases. The police requirement is obviously done with public safety in mind. That doesn't necessarily make it legal though. Check with your AO and if he/she insists that you need security at your normal place of residence and you have a problem with their reason/s then you can ask to speak to his or her superior and see what they have to say. You always have the option of taking legal action if you are refused a firearms licence or having your licence revoked.

A-Cat firearms must be secured against theft. It would be helpful if the law was more precise in regards to that like it is for B or E endorsements that you refer to in section 28 (1) (c). Currently it is not. If you don't agree with any police interpretation of what 'firearms must be secured against theft' means then again you have the option of legally challenging it.

As a law abiding firearms licence holder you'll pleased to know that Paula Bennett has accepted the firearms select committee report recommendation number 14 'Determine appropriate security standards for A category licences' with the note that 'police/firearms community advisory forum already commenced this process'.