Thread: Support for tighter Acat storage

Recent proposes to law changes regarding firearms has caused quite a stir and caused many to be very vocal about their opinions, some of which are more drastic than others. One point I've always looked at and thought needed improving was basic storage requirements of A category firearms.

Current standards approved by I have no idea who, But enforced by police (to their dismay) allow things such as a simple mild steel eye bolt into a wall stud with a wire cable etc to attach firearms, a basic stamped metal cabinet that could be cut with tin snips, or even just a cable around hot water cylinder pipes etc. Let's be honest here and agree that these options are pathetic (and most Acat safes) and we can do better than that as a community to protect out hobbies and investments.

What's wrong with making stout (ie more than 1mm Acat safes) boxes/safes which are securely attached to walls/floors a mandatory requirement and ditching the minimum? Such as how we do our Ecat/Bcat. I get cost may play a factor, but if we're spending thousands and thousands on our firearms then we can invest in secure storage.

Another touchy subject is making all semi autos (.22 and shotguns etc excluded) into Ecat or a new class where a process similar to permit to preclude must be followed. Because what semi autos do you hunt with that aren't ar15/AK derivatives? I only vaguely support this because any Joe Bloggs with a FAL can buy an Acat Ar15/AK and then buy a 30 round mag on the same licence (pretty sure you don't even need a licence?) And then sell it onto a criminal. Please don't come at us with the usual "police should do a better job vetting", and "they need to make longer sentences", because we need to do our part as well to protect our sport and future.

Please add your ideas and solutions as to what changes can be made to have a middle ground between us and police/anti gunners to make all parties happy.

What about Browning Bar rifles? No way are they Ar derivatives. If you give an inch the Police/ Govt will take a mile. Police have proven they will bend and break the law to try and force through unlawful procedures.

So what you are saying there in that second part is that all FAL's with semi's need to get relicenced because of a very very small minority may do as you mention.

Should we also come up with the same licencing method for people who drink and drive? Arguably the drinking and driving is far more widespread than the illegal sales of firearms in your particular given circumstance. Actually, should we not look at how many people are killed every year under these conditions you suggest about illegal sales and then look at the amount of people killed by drunk driving. After this exercise, do you think we could possibly look at where the police ought to be paying more attention? Perhaps we could let the statistics point them in that direction.

I am not saying you do not have an argument, what I am saying is there are far more pressing concerns in society than the issue you raise.

May be they should make it if you want to buy any gun parts you must have a current FAL and if you want to buy a 30round mag you need E-cat endorsement, trouble is there are actually people who just collect gun magazines as a hobby, have no guns or licence just collect magazines

Yes to better security, no to changing semi auto.

PS: Should you not be looking at licencing knives as well ? Christchurch dairy robbed at knifepoint by brazen woman - NZ Herald

The SKS, of which there must be thousands in NZ, are not an AK derivative.

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Guys I just mentioned ar15/ak as a reference since they're the most pronounced, and obviously things like rimfire and shotguns would be exempt in this. However keep the suggestions and ideas coming as it is good to get a wider perspective.

Originally Posted by Macca

Recent proposes to law changes regarding firearms has caused quite a stir and caused many to be very vocal about their opinions, some of which are more drastic than others. One point I've always looked at and thought needed improving was basic storage requirements of A category firearms.

Current standards approved by I have no idea who, But enforced by police (to their dismay) allow things such as a simple mild steel eye bolt into a wall stud with a wire cable etc to attach firearms, a basic stamped metal cabinet that could be cut with tin snips, or even just a cable around hot water cylinder pipes etc. Let's be honest here and agree that these options are pathetic (and most Acat safes) and we can do better than that as a community to protect out hobbies and investments.

What's wrong with making stout (ie more than 1mm Acat safes) boxes/safes which are securely attached to walls/floors a mandatory requirement and ditching the minimum? Such as how we do our Ecat/Bcat. I get cost may play a factor, but if we're spending thousands and thousands on our firearms then we can invest in secure storage.

Another touchy subject is making all semi autos (.22 and shotguns etc excluded) into Ecat or a new class where a process similar to permit to preclude must be followed. Because what semi autos do you hunt with that aren't ar15/AK derivatives? I only vaguely support this because any Joe Bloggs with a FAL can buy an Acat Ar15/AK and then buy a 30 round mag on the same licence (pretty sure you don't even need a licence?) And then sell it onto a criminal. Please don't come at us with the usual "police should do a better job vetting", and "they need to make longer sentences", because we need to do our part as well to protect our sport and future.

Please add your ideas and solutions as to what changes can be made to have a middle ground between us and police/anti gunners to make all parties happy.

I have a great idea, how about some tough sentences for those who break in and steal legally owned firearms. The Arms Act is strict enough on firearm security, we need a few decent sentence's for the offenders plus more police available other than for issuing over the speed limit infringement notices.

Im keen on more people having better security

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Originally Posted by Paddy79

May be they should make it if you want to buy any gun parts you must have a current FAL and if you want to buy a 30round mag you need E-cat endorsement, trouble is there are actually people who just collect gun magazines as a hobby, have no guns or licence just collect magazines

This is something that would be hard to monitor due to people owning rifles compatible with higher capacity magazines such as the Ruger Precision Rifle and Troy pump action AR, But I'm sure some of the guys here could come up with solutions. One could be only being able to purchase the higher capacity magazine if you present proof of owning an Acat firearms that uses them, and then only being able to on sell them to people who hold E or a bolt/pump acat. So basically adding a permit to procure to high (normal >.> ) capacity magazines.

There is no middle ground and you can all kiss your legal semi autos goodbye in the not so distant future. Fact.

Originally Posted by tetawa

I have a great idea, how about some tough sentences for those who break in and steal legally owned firearms. The Arms Act is strict enough on firearm security, we need a few decent sentence's for the offenders plus more police available other than for issuing over the speed limit infringement notices.

This is what I said not to say in this thread however valid it may be. We can keep using these valid excuses to no avail or we can bang heads and come up with more.

But yeah current sentencing on firearms offences is pathetic.

How about, and it seems really simple, to buy e-cat parts you need an e-cat licence, like the bloke said.

Originally Posted by 199p

Im keen on more people having better security

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Yes and where does it stop. With the cordless gear with the high tech cutting discs available it doesn't take much to open the average gun safe. There needs to be a strong deterrent for the offenders.